To be shocked at infection control at hospital

[Trumpety]

So I had to visit A&E this morning. AIBU to be shocked at lack of infection control?

1. No masks or hand sanitiser available as you walk in. Just a sign asking you to wear a mask or ask at reception if you don’t have one

1. No sanitiser available anywhere in the A&E reception / waiting area. I went looking for some as I didn’t want to go rifling through my bag to find mine - I could only find a single empty bottle

1. No one checking temperature on the way in. I didn’t have my temp checked until I saw the triage nurse after about 10min

1. Signs up at the X-Ray reception saying “please remove your mask so our receptionists can understand you properly”!

1. “Red” area and “green” area at X-ray separated by a divider

1. Still no sanitiser available anywhere in X-Ray

I’ve known 3 people to contract CV19 in hospital and I completely understand why now

That sounds quite bad. The one I went to (not A&E) had someone at the entrance asking you to remove your cloth mask and giving you a surgical mask. Sanitisers everywhere. We saw an outpatients Department, MRI, ECG and the canteen or restaurant and it felt safe everywhere.

Yes. I can only think it’s because the staff have all been vaccinated so don’t care anymore

1. Masks come in boxes so anyone could have been putting their hands on other masks in the box when removing.

1. Unacceptable and I hope you mentioned the empty one.

1. It’s A&E where unwell people go and people with Covid are advised not to go unless very unwell. The vast majority of people with a temperature there will be there because of other infections so it is not right to automatically put them with suspected covid patients if they have another obvious infection.

1. Very odd and certainly not policy in my hospital

1. Unfortunately walls could not be built for Covid but with masks being worn red and green areas and regular cleaning of chairs help

1. Again unacceptable and not in my hospital and I hope it was mentioned

I’ve known 3 people to contract CV19 in hospital and I completely understand why now - no it’s likely because only ICU staff and those doing aerosol procedures get the really effective masks and most staff have ill fitting surgical masks that aren’t as effective or very well fitting.

@Trumpety

Yes. I can only think it’s because the staff have all been vaccinated so don’t care anymore

And thanks. Absolute bollocks but thanks for your trust in the caring nature of healthcare staff.

We had to remove hand gel at A&e early in the pandemic as alcoholic patients were drinking it. Not been there recently but don't suppose anything has changed

1. No masks or hand sanitiser available as you walk in. Just a sign asking you to wear a mask or ask at reception if you don’t have one

Masks probably get stolen and others will touch them, much safer/cost efficient for everyone

1. No sanitiser available anywhere in the A&E reception / waiting area. I went looking for some as I didn’t want to go rifling through my bag to find mine - I could only find a single empty bottle

*not great but under intense pressure it might be they just haven’t had time to restock.

1. No one checking temperature on the way in. I didn’t have my temp checked until I saw the triage nurse after about 10min

They can’t check temps at the door, they don’t have the staff

1. Signs up at the X-Ray reception saying “please remove your mask so our receptionists can understand you properly”!

*she’s probably hard of hearing or deaf: it’s a totally valid accommodation

1. “Red” area and “green” area at X-ray separated by a divider

i don’t see the issue with this?

Overall I think you’re being OTT. Bring your own mask, sanitizer and stay away from people. Assuming it’s because the staff are vaccinated- indeed the assumption they’ve been vaccinated at all is ridiculous.

12 months into this and you would think people were used to carrying masks and hand sanitizer by now.

From a medical point of view, hand sanitizer is not needed unless you are entering a ward of vulnerable patients, babies or completing a medical procedure. In fact, putting hand sanitizer on many times actually increases your risk of various infections.
Masks also do very little to stop the spread, aside from making the wearer less anxious. They have a tiny benefit but really not much.
Thermometers are useless here.
The main thing that medical staff are working on is separating covid patients from non covid ones. So it’s more that the staff need to protect themselves from you rather than you from them!
Spread in hospitals comes from patients admitted with covid and it spreading from them to another ward, not ransoms coming into a and e!!!

Randoms

@Quit4me

From a medical point of view, hand sanitizer is not needed unless you are entering a ward of vulnerable patients, babies or completing a medical procedure. In fact, putting hand sanitizer on many times actually increases your risk of various infections. Masks also do very little to stop the spread, aside from making the wearer less anxious. They have a tiny benefit but really not much. Thermometers are useless here. The main thing that medical staff are working on is separating covid patients from non covid ones. So it’s more that the staff need to protect themselves from you rather than you from them! Spread in hospitals comes from patients admitted with covid and it spreading from them to another ward, not ransoms coming into a and e!!!

Right so you can tell that to all the hospitals who have put security guards on the front doors insisting that all arriving patients and visitors use hand sanitizer and put on a mask. You clearly know better than their clinical advisors and public health experts.

I work in a hospital and I’m shocked at the lack of infection control.

Sounds like just your hospital.
Our hospital have taken a lot of precautions and I have the upmost respect for them for that. Not fair to bash every hospital.

Our hospital does not provide masks for non-staff. We simply cannot afford to. Initially there was a supply issue and then people would just take them if they were available. I think since people should be wearing masks anyway, it is fair enough for the hospital not to provide it for patients.

As for sanitizer. Weird that there were none. We have our normal ones available and it's plenty. So additional ones got stolen so they stopped putting them out. None available at all is a bit worrying.

My OH is having infusions for his cancer. Even though the patients are all high risk due to their cancer, the nurses don't change their gloves nor wipe/antibac the blood pressure cuffs nor finger oxymeter between patients. My OH always asks them to do so which usually causes a lot of huffing and puffing and sighing. In a room of cancer patients, the nurses should know better.

The lack of hand sanitiser is unacceptable, it should be readily available to everyone. When I rang my local minor injuries unit to book in this week I was asked if I have any Covid symptoms and told I should wear a mask when I arrive, which I did but when I was triaged the nurse gave me a disposable one instead and took my temperature then.

It’s awful that your local a+e is lacking but by no means are all of them.

I was surprised that my A&E has all the vending machines still on and filled, my relative was wheeled next to them and there was a constant queue of people using the machines. No social distancing, no cleaning of the buttons and some very unwell looking people using them.

The hospital I worked at up until December had stationed security guards at the two main entrances. Partly stopping people coming in unless they had a valid reason but also to guard the masks & hand gel!

As a PP said, hand gel has a high alcohol content & it’s quite common for alcohol dependant patients to take it to drink. Although it must taste vile. The masks too, people were just routinely helping themselves to an entire packet of 10 (if not box of 100) rather than just taking 1.

With regards to removing your mask in X-ray to speak to the Receptionist - is there a screen between you? If so, that should be fine.

That one hospital is not indicative of all hospitals though, I had a procedure on Monday and my. Experience was perfect from an Infecrion control POV.

My DH has spent time in two hospitals over the last few months and although in the same trust, they've been so different.

Hospital 1: you don't get in the door. Security rings the ward and staff come down and take the bag from you while you wait outside wearing a hospital issued mask, even if you arrived wearing your own. In A&E patients given masks at the door, no one allowed in with them.

Strictly no visits until the last days no matter how much you cry what the situation is or how long the patient has been in. Patients not allowed out of the ward to get a coffee or a newspaper (staff will go for them).

Hospital 2: Wander in at will. Security desk has masks and there's a sign up asking you to wear one and sanitise hands but no one makes sure it's done. Take bags to nurses station on the ward. Not allowed to see patients without special permission but you are actually in the ward and have walked past beds to get there.

After 2 weeks they did agree I could see him and again I just wandered in and sat with him. I went to tell them I was there and no one was interested at all. I was wearing a mask but no one asked me to do my hands or explained any "rules".

Both in and out patients wandering the corridors freely.

Our A&E is similar. I think the main part of the hospital is perhaps stricter? When I went to the main part they took my temperature at the door and handed me a surgical mask using a pair of tweezers to replace my own mask. In A&E you could just walk in and up to the reception desk without being challenged. The first temperature check or covid related questions came at triage rather than reception. I had to move rooms quite a bit for different tests and I was surprised at the number of door handles and other surfaces you would touch before later you could track down some sanitiser. I was there for a few hours but was fine though, and that was when cases were pretty high in late Jan or early Feb.

I was recently admitted to hospital and was so shocked by the lack of infection control that I sent a letter to them with a long list. I received a phone call a couple of days later saying that they have looked at my letter and now made changes!! I was so shocked that these measures weren't there already. I know 4 people who have been admitted to this hospital for other issues but have caught Covid and died in the hospital.

I’m in the clinically extremely vulnerable group and have had to go to A and E with my medical conditions several times throughout the pandemic and your description is how it’s been every time I’ve been.

I think there just isn’t the space or resources to isolate and separate properly. No wonder it’s spread so much in hospitals. One particular time I was admitted to a ward with 8 people and was only tested for Covid after I had been there a day. It came back negative but if I had been positive I could have infected everyone else on that ward.

Yes. I can only think it’s because the staff have all been vaccinated so don’t care anymore

@Trumpety FFS really?? I'm not saying what you experienced was good, but this is a really unfair assumption.

The forehead thermometer checks are just for show, completely pointless. DS has to have his checked every day as he arrives at work. He usually measures 33 degrees

@Notabove25

The forehead thermometer checks are just for show, completely pointless. DS has to have his checked every day as he arrives at work. He usually measures 33 degrees

Yep total load of nonsense. My dhs work one always puts everyone at about 34.