To ask if parents/staff would be happy for DC/themselves to remove masks in this situation?

[MaskFace]

Firstly, I really do want honest answers, I won't be offended etc. I would like to hear the genuine views of whether parents would be happy with their DCs removing their masks (and possibly not being able to fully social distance) to communicate with my DC - and also how school staff feel about this too.

My DC is profoundly deaf (secondary mainstream school) and lip reads/signs as well as having a cochlear implant. In a world even without no masks or social distancing he struggles with lots of things anyway and has specialist support in school. Obviously he can't communicate with people wearing face masks if he can't hear them or see their lips. I know the support staff will be helping with learning aspects but it's going to still be really hard. I also fear he will miss out on so much "friendship stuff". When masks were mandatory on school transport here pre lockdown, he stopped getting the school bus and started walking to school by himself. (This breaks my heart a bit)

We have tried many many clear masks/visors etc (although the government school advice is "they should not be worn as an alternative" anyway ) and nothing has been useful enough (muffled sound/light reflecting/vapour etc) so I know people will try and suggest these in a helpful way but it's been exhausted - even making our own and ordering them in from overseas etc so this is not a solution.

So my question is would parents be comfortable with their DC removing their masks in breaks/lessons/on the way to school etc so they can communicate with DS, or do you think it's too risky to do that? (Also interested in school staff views). Or even if they keep their mask on they could be in a group of DC without them. Also social distancing can't always be fully adhered to as you need to be close enough to read lips/pick up sound.

I know the guidelines say masks can be removed for people to lip read etc. I know people will say "just insist they remove them" but I genuinely understand some people may not feel comfortable with the risk which is why I want people to be completely honest.

For full disclosure I am in the CEV category so understand people's fears ( I have had my first vaccination and hope others have too and I know CEV school staff will be working from home).

Please be honest. Also (of course!) especially interested to hear from deaf parents or parents of deaf DC with similar worries. Thank you.

I teach a student who is hearing impaired, at my previous school we had a hearing impaired unit so have had a lot of experience teaching having to consider the situation.

We have been told we are able to remove masks to teach, I was worried about projecting my voice so I will be doing this, when I am moving around the class I have to wear one but will remove it for my current student.

Something mentioned on this thread I will try and repeat answers or questions given by other students in the class.

I’ve read the DfE guidance about masks closely. I don’t think there’s going to be much mask wearing, if I’m honest. Before Xmas a few kids wore them in the class room because they chose to. I think this situation will continue with the vast majority slinging off the mask when sat down. In fact there will prob be less mask wearing than before Xmas because the guidance has changed to allow students to be outside unmasked.
Thank goodness: I hated telling them to put masks on. I’m a teacher, not the mask police.
So having been quite worried about hearing impaired students, I am now thinking that common sense will prevail. Inclusivity is so, so, so much more important than anything else. This has been a rough old deal for anybody with any additional needs and we now need to focus on CHILDREN.

having been quite worried about hearing impaired students, I am now thinking that common sense will prevail. Inclusivity is so, so, so much more important than anything else. This has been a rough old deal for anybody with any additional needs

The inclusivity of all children is important - children with vulnerabilities or who have people at home with vulerabilities who have not yet been vaccinated or who can’t be vaccinated should not be made to feel like wearing a mask is wrong.

If my DC and your DS were friends/in class together, I'd be absolutely fine with them removing their mask when chatting together. My Y7 DC is likely to have to have theirs off at least some of the time because we've yet to find a mask that doesn't cause their glasses to mist up when speaking (possibly exacerbated by the huge twin block braces they wear). I can imagine my eldest DC feeling nervous about being close to someone without a mask initially but if they knew that person was doing the twice weekly tests, would feel reassured and then be fine about it. My DC both walk to and from school and I'm glad they get to avoid the bus at the moment. Of all the situations I'd want them to wear a mask, public transport is the one. It's not just the being squashed up against others but also the fact there are likely to be some people standing (those sitting may be more vulnerable to being sprayed by droplets from them) so I'd want my DC to stay masked to protect themselves a bit from that.

I've been teaching in school throughout the past couple of months and we don't wear masks when we're with the children although we've been asked to now, only if we're unable to distance from them. Most of us have had our first vaccination. DH teaches secondary and doesn't expect to teach whilst wearing a mask as he'll be able to distance from his students. He knows he has some students who won't be wearing masks and is fine with it.

I know you said you've tried everything but I wondered if your DS had ever used a soundfield system at school? You mentioned that the remote learning was sometimes easier to access because of the tech and I thought that was an interesting point. I know teachers who have bought microphones so they can be heard whilst wearing a mask but without injuring their own voices. If a soundfield system or something similar could be used in class, maybe more parents and students would feel comfortable about their child being unmasked as the teacher wouldn't need to raise their voice to be heard (raised voices are thought to transmit more water droplets than normal speech volume).

I would 100% expect my DC to remove their masks to ensure their friend was included in interactions. I have removed my mask at work when working with a deaf client, I was happy to do so and would expect my DC to feel the same. DS is primary so no masks anyway, DD is secondary but I have my doubts about the efficacy of mask wearing in her age group, they get pulled on and off multiple times a day, shoved in grubby bags or pockets, worn ill fittingly etc. I'd have no problem with this.

Does he have a group of close friends? Maybe if you try and ask those parents how they feel they might be okay with their dc removing masks during some classes.
The seating on the school bus is in year group bubbles at my son's school so you could ask for similar ( may not be possible in all schools but worth trying)

If Tesco can ask us to remove our masks to communicate with their deaf counter staff, then I'm sure children and teachers can be asked to remove theirs for your DS. I'd have no qualms at all about that as teacher or a parent.

This is very interesting. There does seem to be more of a "common sense" feeling than on some previous masks/schools threads so hopefully this will be the case in RL - people are just more "calm" in general?

My DD (also deaf) worked in retail and wore a badge saying she couldn't lip read with masks and could people be patient...and some were still absolute twats to her. (She had people complaining to her manager and even on MN some posters were saying people who couldn't wear masks shouldn't be going out if possible (even if it was due to a disability).

I do think things have calmed a bit - before, if I removed my mask to communicate with any DC we would also use BSL as well so people realised and weren't twats but I have relaxed a bit on this and there does seem to be less tutting and no overt comments.

Perhaps the sense of "panic" has calmed. I know I have calmed down about the risks (even before I got my vaccination) as I realised it wasn't doing my mental health any good to be so on edge all the time. I also stayed away from mask threads on here which helped

Sorry I meant to say we do have a soundfield system - I'm sure the SENCO and support staff will be trying to get the best solutions as it develops, which really helps to be honest. They have been amazing throughout all of this.

I remove my mask when serving deaf customers, I'd expect my children to remove their mask to communicate with a deaf classmate.

I wouldn't sorry. I sympathise but my personal circumstances are my own priority and as such wouldn't remove mine or encourage my children to do so. I don't want to risk it.

I'm a teacher of the Deaf. The mask thing is very tricky. Normal masks allow for better sound transmission, but those with clear panels are better for lip reading. The Ewing Foundation have done lots of research on this.

Is your child's ToD advising the school? Different councils will have different views on it. I personally wear a clear mask when I have to around school (in corridors) and communicate through BSL. But I remove it at the earliest opportunity when working with my students.

Secondary is much harder than primary and we have had many discussions about this! I would advise that the school approach the adults of several friends of the d/Deaf student and ask this question directly, so there can be a small group of friends whose families wouldn't mind close contact with no masks. It's vital for that child's well-being.

I'd also be going to a staff meeting to teach some basic signs so at least if masks are worn there can be some basic communication.

I completely agree with BSL being taught in schools, although when it can be fitted in is another issue! But it should be offered as another language perhaps at secondary.

I hope you find some kind of balance for your DC, OP. It is a hard time.

I have taught in a mask since September. They work well with microphone systems for deaf pupils if that's any consolation.

It must be great having had your vaccination. Unfortunately most teachers won't have had theirs so you'll understand why a lot of us are twitchy at sitting with 180 maskless pupils a day when we're told it's not safe to have our mum sit in the living room with us.

It would be fine with me. Our school just emailed anyway to say following the latest guidance they are not making masks compulsory in the classroom, can’t imagine many of the kids will be opting to wear them.

I’d be fine with it. Would like to think that if pupils are taking regular lateral flow tests and as more and more people get the vaccination, that the school situation is better this term than last term. Hope the return to school goes well

"It must be great having had your vaccination. Unfortunately most teachers won't have had theirs so you'll understand why a lot of us are twitchy at sitting with 180 maskless pupils a day when we're told it's not safe to have our mum sit in the living room with us"

I do understand the disconnect between mixing at work being OK and mixing socially not being OK, but this is the same for lots of people not just teachers eg production operatives. I do genuinely want the opinions of school staff here as well as you are the ones concerned in DS's scenario but the comment about it's great to have my vaccination but teachers haven't has a bit of an unpleasant tone to it - the reason I have had my vaccination is because I am clinically extremely vulnerable and any teachers in the same situation should also have had theirs (hopefully, or will very soon if not). If teachers (or anyone!) haven't had a vaccination yet it's because they aren't at such high risk of serious illness and death. At my DCs' schools shielding teachers are still teaching at home so they aren't exposed to risk and I believe this is government advice for all CEV people. Atm we are advised to shield even after vaccination so my
DS wouldn't be exposing them to risk anyway.

I'm absolutely fine with posts like Willyoujust which are honest and understanding - it's not the I don't want to remove my mask bit I object to - that's what I asked and I would rather know that! But I don't think the comparison between me having a vaccination and teachers haven't is fair. I mentioned I had had the vaccine to say I understand peoples' fears especially vulnerable people.

I have a deaf (partial bilateral loss rather than profound) child. We’ve been having this discussion with school. I don’t feel I can ask her teachers not to wear masks (primary so fellow pupils won’t be wearing masks) but I have asked that her school sensory support worker contacts school and reminds them that DD will struggle to understand someone wearing a mask and that they need to make allowances, ensure she understands instructions and basically work to make sure she isn’t disadvantaged. On a purely selfish basis I’d like them to take their masks off. My daughter already has difficulty getting the instructions (despite measures being place). This just makes her life so much harder. However with a shielding sister and vulnerable parents I can see the teachers side too.

Thank you. I appreciate your reply.

I'm a single mum with no family. Sole carer of DC on the shielding list. Theyd be in the care system if anything happens to me. I appreciate my circumstances arent the norm and if we were less vulnerable I would be happy to.

I appreciate your circumstances, but would ask that your DC be moved to a different form group, because of CEV issues, and the additional support for those issues required.

I get that your DC needs support, but adjustments are not reasonable when they carry the risk of serious illness (even death) to classmates and/or their immediate household. The person who needs the risky adjustment is the one who needs to move to a place where they are not posing a risk when using the adjustment.

That's quite a heartless reply OP to Alldonein. I'm sure you know adults over 50, for example, are at a higher risk. Plenty of pregnant people and people with asthma are still in school. Death is also not the only risk - I don't want to end up like the colleague who couldn't work for 5 months after Covid.
Mitigations to keep us safer are thin on the ground but masks are one of the few.

...we are allowed to be worried, while at the same time wanting to help your dc.

@nether but CEV people won't be in school as per government advice? As we are the group most at risk of serious illness and death this shouldn't be a reason for DS to be excluded. What different form group are you thinking DS should be moved to?

I appreciate you wouldn't want to remove a mask and that's your decision but suggesting DS can't go to school at all as he is deaf isn't reasonable surely?

@TweetleBeetlesBattle

I have similar worries with a primary age child. It's not just the teacher being incomprehensible, it's the class discussions, group chat, muffled answers from the person behind them, social interactions and friendships really suffer This lockdown been really isolating and schools are really not that deaf friendly at the best of times.

We have a spare radio aid for home use that I'm going to hand to the school to ask them to give a friend at playtime if I need to. Worth considering?

If in England primary school children shouldn't be wearing masks.

I did start the thread with the best intentions to see if people would be happy with mask removal or not and genuinely don't want this to turn into an argument.

But people suggesting my DS be totally excluded as he is risking serious illness and death to others is actually quite hard to read in all honesty - it's not the question I asked and given the CEV group (which includes me!) won't be in school seems disproportionate and very unkind.

[quote MaskFace]@nether but CEV people won't be in school as per government advice? As we are the group most at risk of serious illness and death this shouldn't be a reason for DS to be excluded. What different form group are you thinking DS should be moved to?

I appreciate you wouldn't want to remove a mask and that's your decision but suggesting DS can't go to school at all as he is deaf isn't reasonable surely?[/quote]
CEV school staff and adults were in school in the autumn term and will be in this term generally. I know the shielding advice is there but not all schools will do this and many school staff will be under pressure to be in, especially as most cev will have had at least one vaccine shot.

Many CV staff (and pupils) may not have had even one vaccine yet. As they are being done via gp surgeries it varies hugely as to whether people have been called or not. Most certainly won't have had 3 clear weeks since their vaccine. When I go back in Monday it will be about a week and half since mine.

It's unlikely anyone in groups 8 and 9 will yet have been called, and a lot of group 7 may well have not had theirs yet - these are all still priority groups and still classed as vulnerable to covid. There are many teachers and support staff in schools who are over 50 and/or CV.

Whilst I would be happy to remove my mask for a child with hearing issues I can understand why some of those more vulnerable staff who are yet to be vaccinated may be a little more reluctant to have 30+ children and adults facing them in a crowded poorly ventilated room. I do have sympathies with those too, as well as for your child.