To get rid of my cleaner

[Lotty456]

I’ve had a self employed cleaner (same person) for about a year now & I’m generally happy with his work but last visit he was on his phone for about half hour. I asked whether calls could be made outside work hours & his response was that sometimes calls are unavoidable as it’s lockdown & childcare is an issue so he needs to take calls, he also said that as he is self employed he may needs to take calls from other potential clients although he will be quick. I don’t know whether I’m over reacting but I feel that he shouldn’t be on his phone when he is supposed to be working (although he doesn’t stop working he just carries on one handed)

I suppose you could argue someone who operates a till in a shop could chat on the phone whilst they are scanning stuff.

On the phone? No they are in a customer facing role and part of that role is to provide customer service. They do manage to chat to the customer while scanning which requires the same level of concentration as chatting hands free on a phone.

A teacher could chat away whilst the kids were doing set work.

This does happen yes. Either chatting to a colleague in the room or chatting on the phone. I know some of my teachers certainly carried out phone conversations while we were getting on with something that didn’t need their input.

People in factories could chat while they were assembling/making stuff.

Many do. Some are allowed. Some aren’t. Some can’t due to wearing ear defenders.

What is it about cleaning that means they don't have to focus on their job?

What it is about cleaning is that it doesn’t require high levels of focus. It requires eyes and one or two hands. Leaving the brain and lips free. My brain and lips generally occupy themselves by singing, working out my current childcare issues, wondering what colour to paint my garden shed. I get an immense amount of proper thinking done while working. And this is all while listening to music at the same time. I’m not at all a phone chatting person, I like being a cleaner in no small part because it means I don’t have to talk to lots of people, but o would have no difficulty in completing my work to the same standard if I was talking on the phone instead of singing and planning as I do.

My cleaner earns more per hour than my daughter in her graduate entry level job.

Your cleaner probably charges more than your daughter earns but I suspect she doesn’t actually take home more by that much if at all.

And my daughter can't make personal calls for half an hour whilst she's working.

That will be because your daughter is employed and signed a contract agreeing that she wouldn’t talk on the phone whilst working.

Bracket she is supposed to be - you know - working.

What does she work at? You could always suggest she become a self employed cleaner.

My cleaner is self employed so everything is paid directly into her bank account. Whether she pays tax and NI I have no idea. If she doesn't, then she is very highly paid.

@ThereOnceWasANote

My cleaner is self employed so everything is paid directly into her bank account. Whether she pays tax and NI I have no idea. If she doesn't, then she is very highly paid.

I’m not sure what point you’re making by saying she’s paid into her bank account

Why would it be in question whether she pays her tax and NI? She’ll also have public liability insurance, travel costs, clothing costs, she covers her own holiday and sick pay out of what she charges you, her pension too. if she is like me and uses her own equipment and products she has all those costs too. Advertising costs, accountant fees. What you pay into her account isn’t what her take home is.

I understand that - I'm self employed too. I was answering the previous poster who implied that she would not get the full payment - she does. Travel and clothing costs we all pay - not aware of any employer who plays for transport to work or clothes. I provide the products. She brings her own Hoover as she doesn't like mine.
Tax and NI - I'm just saying I do not know if she pays it.

But we are getting off track.
I pay her a decent wage to clean. I have seen her on the phone - she doesn't clean when she's chatting. She moves a mop around, or a cloth, but she's not cleaning. That's a fact.
I'm sure other cleaners could be different. I can only say what I have observed.

@TheNorthWind

OP, nobody needs to put in 100% concentration to scrub your bog. It's not a complicated task, it's just not something that anybody wants to be doing.

You pay somebody to cut your hair because it's a skilled job. You couldn't do it to the same standard yourself, because you don't know how. That's also why you might pay an accountant or any number of other people who provide skilled services. Most of those will need to concentrate properly in order to do a good job.

But you don't pay your cleaner because you're incapable of cleaning your house. (Disability exceptions understood, of course.) You know how to hoover the carpet and wipe the surfaces and scrub the bath. But you don't want to do it, so you pay a cleaner. Now that is absolutely fair enough, but it doesn't make it a skilled trade. So if your cleaner does something else to occupy their brain at the same time, in a way that doesn't disturb you or affect the results of their work, then so what? What earthly difference does it make to you?

Why do you really have a problem with this?

THISSSSSSS

I disagree. I think being a good cleaner is a skill.

You aren't his manager so you can't ask him not to take calls or to use air pods. It is not your business.

You are paying for the service so if the standard is not good enough then you're within your rights to find a new cleaner. But it doesn't sound like the standard of cleaning is the issue and as you plan to be out it is a bit pointless to insist on air pods.

was answering the previous poster who implied that she would not get the full payment - she does.

That was me. And no I didn’t say she doesn’t get the full payment. I said the amount she charges is not her take home pay. If you are self employment you should understand exactly what that means. If you don’t, then good luck!

Travel and clothing costs we all pay - not aware of any employer who plays for transport to work or clothes.

Travel to your singular place of work in the morning and evening is not paid by an employer but if you have to travel from one work site to another you are entitled to a travel allowance or tax deduction. This is very standard. as a self employed person you should know that travel and wear and tear on your vehicle is allowed at 45p per mile because it is a cost of running the business.

For clothes she may well have clothes that she only wears for working that have to be replaced frequently due to wear and getting splashed with bleach etc. That’s something she has to pay for out of what you pay her as it is a result of her doing the job.

She brings her own Hoover as she doesn't like mine.

So she has a hoover to maintain and repair or replace when it breaks due to being used whilst working.

Tax and NI - I'm just saying I do not know if she pays it.

Do you pay yours?

I have seen her on the phone - she doesn't clean when she's chatting. She moves a mop around, or a cloth, but she's not cleaning. That's a fact.

That’s fair enough- some won’t talk and clean. That doesn’t mean others can’t. If she isn’t finishing the job then you should speak to her or stop using her services.

YABVU. If his cleaning is up to the same standard as when he's not on the phone, what on earth does it matter? Leave him be.
Unless it's that you're hoping for a bit of socialising with him while he's cleaning. Again though, unreasonable.

You are being unreasonable ! My cleaner chats away the whole time she's here on her headphones . As long as she gets the cleaning done why would I care

@Lotty456

The issue I have is that he is being paid to clean not to socialise, most paid jobs do not accept that. Anyway I’m not going to make an issue of it with him now except to ask him to use AirPods.

Erm people who work in offices spend literally HOURS gabbing away not doing work

So if he is doing the same standard of work it doesn't matter

God you sound entitled

You're paying him to do a particular job to a particular standard, and he's doing it.

What about being grateful for the help and refraining from policing his behaviour when it makes absolutely no tangible difference to you?

Also, I've never had a job where I didn't socialise with colleagues and/or customers. What jobs are you thinking about that don't allow chatting? I'm sure they exist, but they're far from typical.

Interesting that the replies from cleaners (me included) say they wouldn't spend 30 mins on the phone as it's unprofessional yet people are outraged that you feel that he should be concentrating on the job. A quick call is one thing but 30 min conversation, no way.

If you're paying for a service, any service, you would expect full attention given. It's impossible to clean one handed, things need moving etc it's not just a bit of hoovering.

Interesting that the replies from cleaners (me included) say they wouldn't spend 30 mins on the phone as it's unprofessional yet people are outraged that you feel that he should be concentrating on the job. A quick call is one thing but 30 min conversation, no way.

I’m a cleaner and if I was a phone person I could easily do my job while talking on the phone. I would use an ear piece just the same as I use for my music. It would be no different. I’m not a phone chatty person though. My poor clients are just subjected to my out of tune caterwauling.

Erm people who work in offices spend literally HOURS gabbing away not doing work

only with very poor management, or with very unprofessional staff.

Many workers have targets of some kind, and a life outside the office. Wasting your working day gabbing away is not everybody's idea of a fun time.

OP, nobody needs to put in 100% concentration to scrub your bog. It's not a complicated task, it's just not something that anybody wants to be doing.

either you concentrate and you do it properly, quickly and efficiently, or you faff around and spend twice as long as needed and expect to be paid for that.

I wouldn't pay.

@therealteamdebbie you sound more and more fun with every post.

Interesting that the replies from cleaners (me included) say they wouldn't spend 30 mins on the phone as it's unprofessional yet people are outraged that you feel that he should be concentrating on the job. A quick call is one thing but 30 min conversation, no way

I cleaned for years. Just because you can't split your focus when scrubbing and buffing up toilets doesn't mean other people can't.

The attitude of the OP is what has stood out. I've met that attitude in various places. One memorable being called in to some company for a deep clean after a mouse infestation. One of the managers called for our boss to come because we were chatting on the staircases as we scrubbed them. Obviously we were to scrub in silence. We got a fake telling off through rolling eyes.

It's these types of attitudes from people who think cleaners are beneath them that rankles. It's so obvious when people think like that.

[quote UhtredRagnarson]@therealteamdebbie you sound more and more fun with every post.[/quote]
interesting personal attack. Does it make you feel better?

Personal attack? It was an observation based on the numerous posts you’ve made sharing what you find weird, boring and horrendous. (People chatting in a hairdressers)

You need two hands to clean properly imo

It would be better if he “stopped the clock” as it were, went and took his call, and then started again fully focused on the job.

I can't believe the comments. I think he is v cheeky being on the phone for half an hour. Iv been a cleaner and I wouldn't have dreamed of cleaning one handed while on the phone. I wouldn't have physically been able to do it. Ok yes answer if it's an emergency but not to spend half hour. That's a third of his time.

I have a cleaner and gardener. My cleaner receives calls, but only quick ones. I wouldn't have an issue if it was a longer call provided it was hands free.

We had both noticed our gardener repeatedly hiding behind a bush at the bottom of the garden and doing nothing/going on his phone. We were too embarrassed to say anything but it got to the point that we were paying him nearly £20 an hour to do about 10 minutes of work (albeit his friend worked hard). We swallowed our embarrassment and had a quick word with him. There's also a fair bit of arriving late/leaving early if we're not around. We're not unreasonable but neither do we want to have the mickey taken.

I'd go for your earphones suggestion and perhaps be around a bit more.