Sorry, it’s a Middle Class one; but with A levels and possible teacher bashing thrown in for good measure.

[AmySosa]

DD is doing Sociology A level.

Several occasions now she has come down scratching her head over stuff her tutor has said.

Tutor has defined Middle Class as wealthy and doesn’t have to work. She’s doubled down on this several times. Today she asked them to guess at class based on accent, and the plummy cut glass accent was MC. She has said anyone who needs to work for a living is Working Class, Middle Class is wealthy and doesn’t need to work and Upper Class is Titles and Royalty.

Now, I really only have DDs word for this so far. But this is wrong, right?

I know class is a shifting concept but surely WC is (broadly) manual jobs, MC is professionals and UC is inherited wealth? Tutor seems to be conflating MC and UC.

DD wants to bring this up but I thought we’d get opinions first. Is the Tutor WRONG or is this a Sociology A level grouping of modern classes?

YANBU What does her sociology text book say on the definitions for social class?

The accent comment is ridiculous as well.

One does not agree with one's definition of class, as told to one's DD before her prep was set.

Well class is a very subjective thing.
My aunt was a school cleaner and lived in a council house and called herself middle class

If your DD asks for it to be written down then it'll be easier to share with the school. Discussing class without the context that It has extremely limited usefulness in understanding society and that it's

Whoops...
And that it's not a rigorously defined set of terms, is fine. Giving alternative meanings and pretending that "class" defined as 3 simple groups matters in understanding society are both wrong.

All I know, is that swearing transcends class
I’ve had posh partners and rough ones, and they all swore like sailors.

When I did sociology (30 years ago, and not very studiously) we discussed class in terms of A and Bs, C's, Ds and Es. Upper class we're outside of that (landed, or hereditary titles etc)

Accent means nothing as in England a posh northerner may still have flatter vowels than a working class southerner. Scottish people will just sound Scottish to those in England, whether they're uc or wc.

Surgeons would mostly be umc but still work for their living.

There's may be definition set by textbooks/specification from the exam board.

I know I've had to teach things I've been about because "it's on the spec"

I agree this is rubbish, even when class definitions were simple enough to be divided into three categories.

This is a one modern version: www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_5093/index.stm

Perhaps your daughter should ask the tutor to define what class she is ?

No idea if the tutor is wrong or right but that is the same as what I was taught for my own sociology a level ten years ago. I would assume to matches the exam board syllabus.

@Alicetheowl

Is she giving a deliberately outdated Victorian era definition to see when and how the students will challenge this, and then start a debate? Maybe about the fact that class definitions are fluid?

Yes, this is my impression to. It seems so wildly wrong and stereotypical, that it surely must be to initiate debate?

Too

My sociology teacher was entirely Marxist (Well apart from believing in the lizard people in power thing!!!) So she taught us the middle class are just the deluded most 'content' of the working class - that they're the ones that have fully believed the lie that there's some sort of freedom from the owner/ worker reality. But that there isn't.

I think a lot of sociology teachers want to get students to reflect on a view of class. It is important in most theories to not automatically assume where the lines are.

A lot of feminist theory points out women are treated as an underclass etc.

My sociology teacher was entirely Marxist (Well apart from believing in the lizard people in power thing!!!) So she taught us the middle class are just the deluded most 'content' of the working class - that they're the ones that have fully believed the lie that there's some sort of freedom from the owner/ worker reality. But that there isn't.

Cor - I've never thought about this before but it's true! Thanks for posting, @B33Fr33

This is very odd - I agree with others saying maybe they're doing it on purpose to start a debate? Middle class being wealthy enough to not work hasn't been a thing for centuries (and even then I'm not sure - would e.g. a doctor or a solicitor have been counted as working class in the same way a maid or a farmhand was?).

Maybe your daughter has got the wrong end of the stick regarding the point the point the teacher is making. Perhaps the teacher is trying to inspire debate or is just giving a "class for dummies" intro before the proper reading and teaching. Thats rather more likely than the teacher being clueless about her own topic, surely? I certainly wouldn't be raising anything with the school unless there's a lot more evidence.

@Cam77

Maybe your daughter has got the wrong end of the stick regarding the point the point the teacher is making. Perhaps the teacher is trying to inspire debate or is just giving a "class for dummies" intro before the proper reading and teaching. Thats rather more likely than the teacher being clueless about her own topic, surely? I certainly wouldn't be raising anything with the school unless there's a lot more evidence.

Which is why I said the daughter should ask the tutor herself what class she defines herself as

That wouldn’t be my perception of middle class. I would class a Doctor, Solicitor, Accountant, Head teacher etc as middle class professionals.

Working class anything that doesn’t require a degree or years of exams etc

Upper class land owners/those with titles, aristocratic types.

That’s the very basic definition imo, but I would sub divide them again within each category and say

Working class/upper working class

Middle class/upper middle class

Upper class/upper upper class 😂

@MissConductUS

A bit off-topic, but the level of obsession with interest in class in the UK never ceases to amaze me.

Where are you from?

But as op says regardless of how important anyone thinks it is, it's a crucial part of sociology. Personally I feel in the UK class is one of the most significant barriers to opportunity. So obsessed no but I do think awareness of class perception and the opportunity it gives people is crucial.

Historically, the middle class were the ones who neither did the labour nor owned the means of production. (As PP have said, people like solicitors, doctors, clerics, teachers.)

Obviously it's daft to describe Jolyon Maugham or Victoria Coren Mitchell as working class.

However, it's something I've seen several times on Mumsnet - if you are employed, you are working class.

(I like to think of it like this: if someone says "Class War" do you think yikes and hide under the bed?)

I don't think modern day Britain can be conveniently sliced in to 3 classes. On the oft used ABC type classification I would be an A (upper middle class) based on my profession, but my background is definitely upper working class. There are lots of real upper middle class people in my profession and despite having the same qualifications, doing the same job and earning the same income as them, I am definitely not the same as them, and we all know it. My accent, education, and all kinds of other things mark me out as different. It's one of those things that is hard to define objectively but everyone knows it when they see it.
I think the tutor is presenting a very simple view of class, possibly politically motivated. But things really aren't that black and white.

The only thing that matters to your daughter's a level result is what the syllabus/textbook says so refer to that. Might be the same as what the tutor is saying, or it might not. Otherwise who cares....

Wow! You managed to evaluate a professional's competency from a third-hand internet post? Maybe you should look for a job in educational management with appraisal skills like that.

Or just shut up.

😂 Are you the tutor?

Being able to appreciate that that tutor is not competent to deliver their subject based on the evidence provided doesn't qualify me for a career in education management but it's hardly rocket science either!

Excellent debating skills, by the way - "just shut up". With debating skills like that, you should look for a job in politics.

Anyway, thank you for making me laugh with your ludicrous response 😂