AIBU to wonder WTF has happened to nursing “care” in our NHS?

[AnnieGetYourPun]

And don’t tell me it’s all Covid/staff shortages/staff illness related.

My niece was eventually admitted to hospital after being sent home twice from A&E (in agony) and is now on a gynae ward. It’s just her and an elderly lady on the ward. The elderly lady was getting agitated as she needed the toilet. The nurse came and said, and I quote “it’s alright, use your pad and we’ll come and sort you out later”. This has really upset my niece who’s dodging sepsis now, on the ward, on massive IV antibiotics/anti-emetics and IV analgesia. She has narrowly avoided a ruptured uterus as there was no one to do a scan on her, after a 12 hr wait in A&E. She is 32.

Nurses now... all of ‘em have degrees. All dead clever. Very few of them have an ounce of “caring” in them.

Fry me on here. I’m past fucking caring.

Should add. I trained in the NHS. Was a student/junior staff nurse/senior staff nurse/junior sister and G grade senior sister before retirement. Never, in my f***g life have I seen such lack of basic care and maintenance of human dignity than I have witnessed in NHS hospitals, in the past two years.

Shove your clapping and rainbows.

It was like this in the hospital I worked in years ago, many, but not all, of the nurses were not the caring angels they had been said to be!

The clapping etc was nonsense imo

I am grateful that we have an NHS however it is made up of people, some of whom are excellent caring folk and for others they are just doing a job

I totally agree with you!! I've spent over a year in hospital in the past 2 years and the basic care was non exsistent.

It works both ways OP. Some patients and their families are fucking horrific.

NHS staff can bend over backwards to try and help a patient with the tools they have available yet they can't do a single thing right and the patient or their family will be rude and aggressive when it's uncalled for. Some patients (actually sometimes it's the families who are worse) I have spoken to are disgusting yet there isn't a single nurse, doctor, secretary or manager in my department who could be described as you are tarring all nurses.

That's why all that fucking clapping was so hypocritical.

Yes, you've seen a poor experience in the NHS so that applies to every single other nurse in the NHS

Pathetic. And insulting. Get over yourself.

You don't know the whole story, perhaps this lady couldn't get out of bed for a good reason due to her condition and catheterisation wasn't as option. Many nurses are quite matter of fact because they know something is common, normal - for some this is reassuring whereas to others this may appear blunt I suppose. I like a no fuss type medical practitioner eg my midwife who told me not to worry if I didn't have this or that for my baby and leaves were just as good as baby wipes!

I would advice all would be nurses to read this thread before doing 3 year of tough training and taking out a massive loan. The public will praise you at the beginning of a pandemic when they are all at home terrified and keeping themselves safe and as it is over you are all cruel uncaring bitches.

@AnnieGetYourPun I have read it, totally accept there are valid examples but you literally tarred all with the same brush and have back tracked now to a more balanced argument. If you have a problem go through the right channels like PALS.

@Roystonv

Three points, some of this problem (and there is a major one) has nothing to do with funding and all to do with as someone said a culture that has been allowed to develop on that unit. Those who don't care will take advantage, those that do will continue to be brilliant. Secondly, I think it has a lot to do with the fact that nurses no longer are stationed near their patients but behind a desk in a corridor supervising up to maybe 6 wards plus single rooms; they only enter a ward to do something specific and are not monitoring/assessing/interacting with patients. Thirdly, when did paperwork become more important than people, it has become a monster that takes staff away from the very people they are there to help. Patients are not being fed, toileted, washed, kept hydrated and properly medicated and yes I weep and rage for these poor souls who suffer in the very place created to help them.

I was rushed into a coronary unit 2 years ago. The ward was mainly men, I assume men have more heart trouble. There were only 2 women in the unit/ward, me and another woman. I was in a bay right next to the "office" space i.e. desk, phone, computer, where ward clerk worked during the day. I assumed it was so we felt secure on a mainly male ward or maybe they thought I was dying and wanted to keep a close eye on me.

Either way no one worked in a corridor. The senior sister on the ward worked one of the night shifts when I was in. Her skills in dealing with an elderly man who clearly had advanced dementia or maybe dementia and an infection (I work in a care home and it was obvious) were brilliant. After she had managed to settle him, took some negotiation, a phone call for his wife to reassure him, and him being offered a side room to himself, she then asked who wanted hot milk. cocoa or a cuppa and we all had hot drinks and biscuits at 2 am. It ended up feeling a bit like a party.

I can't imagine anyone more caring.

@foodtoorder. I am not back tracking. I have said NOT ALL because clearly some stories told on here are of good care. Many are not.

Not back tracking at all. I stand by my OP now, as before and I’m not the only one here of this opinion.

I’m a HCP and have also been a patient many times.

I’ve met nurses who were lovely and caring and calm, some who were kind but stressed and rushed, and the odd one who was rude/dismissive. I reported the rude/dismissive one to the NIC and said I didn’t want that particular nurse involved in my care. She assigned a different nurse to me.

And I once spoke to a nurse who said that she would have to be dragged to hospital on her deathbed - as she sees ever day how poorly people are treated.

I have heard many nurses say this about specific wards and hospitals.

@OfTheNight... so pleased your dog received excellent care 😊

@MasterQuickly... you’re absolutely right. Some patients and their families can be, as you say, difficult to please. I agree wholeheartedly and would add that being in hospital is everyones last resort. No one wants to go into hospital unless they absolutely have to so, anxieties are high along with expectation and it’s a small step from anxiety to hostility and downright abuse. Not acceptable.

I’m not going to respond again and again to the “tarring everyone with the same brush” comments. When I rightly point out that I deliberately have not done so and cite some of the positive experiences I’m then told “you’re backtracking/changing your tune” so, it’s pointless trying to defend myself to people who, even having read the full thread, seem to think I’m “nurse/NHS bashing”. Clearly... Very clearly, there are many posters who feel the same as I. It doesn’t make me feel any better, I assure you. I really didn’t expect so many “me too” posts, in reply. I feel even more worried than I did at the start when posting in reaction to my niece’s admission and care.

Someone upthread mentioned they had changed their lifestyle habits in order to improve their health, so concerned we’re they at needing hospital treatment (apologies, I cannot find the poster). I have done this. I’ve added more exercise and fruit/veg into my day and when it snowed recently, my Couch25K was put on hold. A friend asked me “have you given up the running, haven’t seen you pounding the streets for a bit?” We laughed about the fact that I’d rather gain a few pounds than fall over, break my hip and need to go to A&E. It’s not funny though, is it? There’s nothing funny about fear, genuine fear of needing help and it not being there. Well, it’s there theoretically, but if you need a pee or can’t reach your drink/get the lid off the bottle you’re classed as awkward and needy by your “carer” and an “NHS hater”.

I will say, of the staff who attended to my mum before she died, there were two very kind HCAs who, when they were on shift, I could see Mum was less anxious. The qualified nurses who insisted my mother had come into hospital with a pressure sore (for which there was no mention of/no wound care assessment/treatment plan in the notes and turned out to be a small patch of long running psoriasis which had broken down under their neglect...) were hostile. No other way of describing them.

What comes across it the element of chance in receiving good care. Some are lucky to experience kindness and a good standard. Others, neglect and indifference. And it’s the luck of the draw.

I’m sorry about the care on that ward, but I’m a nurse and I’m more caring than most. I’ve cried lots over patients I was unable to save. You’re so offensive and rude.

The lady that was mentioned in the OP wasn't alone. It's common practice to tell patients to wet/soil themselves. I've heard it many times.

On the occasion it happened to me I'd tried very hard not to wet myself; I pressed and pressed my buzzer, called out to nurses going past (got the usual response: "In a minute, dear").
A couple of hours later I was found shivering in a cold, wet bed.

The nurses were extremely annoyed with me and and told me that, if it happened again, they'd "pad" me and I have to "do it in there".

I wasn't very old and incontinent; I was 48 and it turned out that I had a UTI as well as my other problems.

I did suggest that I might have a UTI, but was told that "just because you're a doctor doesn't mean you know everything".

@Cinderellashoes. Then that makes many other posters on here, “offensive and rude” does it? When they’re recounting takes of poor/downright horrendous care? May I kindly suggest you have a reread of some of the replies on here. Or look to the post directly below your own.

Please, to believe that these things are not happening is to put all of us at risk. Can’t you see that @CinderellaShoes? Its not about you if you’re giving good care. Many, many are NOT.

The OP is most definitely not being offensive and rude - have you even read the thread, which is made up of nurses proclaiming that the OP is wrong, a handful of people saying they had great care, and the vast majority of people sharing their experiences of utterly shitty so called care from nurses who shouldn't be nurses?

@LaMarschallin... How dare you not want to incontinent for need of a toilet/commode 🙄

Christ, the defensive blinker wearing on here shows why were in this mess.

One day, it could be you. Your mum, sister, friend, husband, dad, child. Are all the “It’s a scandal you’re even suggesting poor care” brigade really so far in denial? Read The Replies objectively.

@FellowFlipFlop... you’re wasting good Sunday morning “doing something nice” time. As am I, it seems. They just cannot see it, so self righteous are they.

Completely demoralised and heartbroken after reading this thread. I am so genuinely sorry to everyone who has experienced poor care and would urge you all to complain but so say that very few nurses are caring and it’s because we have degrees is so, so unfair.

Myself and my colleagues work extremely hard to give the absolute best care we possibly can, often at the detriment of our own mental and physical health. Of course there are some nurses that are uncaring and don’t do a good job but I would say you get that in every profession. It’s not acceptable and individuals should be reported and dealt with appropriately but to tarnish a whole profession based on your experiences is such a shame.

Look how patients were treated in the old learning disability “colonies” or psychiatric hospitals. None of those nurses had degrees.

I agree it’s not all but when I was in hospital having my first dc in lockdown 1 it was horrific and has totally put me ever having another baby for the fear of the maternity ward.

I was induced and was on my own for all of it that’s no ones fault. I was left that long begging for relief though I couldn’t walk, was being sick over the side of my bed after repeatedly asking for a sick bowl then was down on my hands and knees cleaning it up myself with the tissues from my own bag because they were ignoring my buzzer ( another girl on the ward went to get someone and when I came back from labour ward the a 2 days later she told me they were talking about what dogs breeds were best ). I had to have an EMCS and because of the restrictions was taken back up to the ward without my partner and still numb. I couldn’t move at all. My dd had been sick the thick mucus that they have if having a CS and I couldn’t get to her. Pressed my buzzer no one came and she started to choke and it was only when I screamed someone help me please that someone came donnering down the corridor and said “ uff what is it?! “ and then they heard my dd choking and I seen in their face even they got a fright she had to pick her up and pat her really hard. There was other stuff but I’m crying thinking about this it brings back so many bad memories.

What I will say though is those midwives in the labour ward.....it was them who I was clapping for they were truly hero’s. Every single one of them were amazing it was like night and day with the level of care and compassion from them I still think of the 2 midwives and 2 student midwives I had often. In fact we have gave DD one of their names as a middle name and there was a local awards thing here and I nominated them for it I can’t thank those 4 amazing women enough!

I think the op is right, some people just shouldn’t be in that profession tbh.

@AnnieGetYourPun

LaMarschallin... How dare you not want to incontinent for need of a toilet/commode 🙄

Christ, the defensive blinker wearing on here shows why were in this mess.

One day, it could be you. Your mum, sister, friend, husband, dad, child. Are all the “It’s a scandal you’re even suggesting poor care” brigade really so far in denial? Read The Replies objectively.

What?

Sorry if I've not made myself clear.

"One day it could be you"

It was me

I didn't want to wet the bed but I had to.
And I was threatened with having a pad put on me so I could "do it in that" if I couldn't hold it again.

@AnnieGetYourPun

Seriously, have you not read my post properly or have you got me mixed up with someone else?
Because your reply to me doesn't make any sense.

The NHS has been short of beds and understaffed for decades. Thats no reason for staff to be rude and uncaring and its not just nurses. Our jobs have all changed and many sisters no longer seem to be able to or want to work on the wards now. Theres no supervision, no ward teaching, ENB courses, b5s co-ordinate most shifts without any support or authority to challenge bad care and it causes resentment. A b5 in charge of a shift can spend all shift dealing with everything other than direct patient care and thats not fair on anyone.

Having put my early birth experience up earlier I’ve been wondering whether to put my 2nd up.
It was on the continent. I was lucky to be there. I think here I would have been dead.
Obviously difficult to compare different systems blah blah and I don’t know all of the inside details, the birth was different, more caveats, but it might act as a contrast to anyone claiming the NHS is well funded enough, wastes too much or it’s nothing to do with staffing. Think about how you would feel working under each system too and which you would work harder for. For a start nurses shifts are 8 hours long with an approx 40 hour working week.

I dont know what the early stages of Labour care are like as for reasons I arrived in late stages. Care through pregnancy had been under the care of expert gynaecologists with midwifes effectively acting as specialty nurses. I don’t know how long they work, but one was on duty at all times on the wards in a rotation system. I had two midwives with me at all times through late stage labour - two, at all times - with the gynaecologist on call. I then had an even bigger pph and was in a private room with one midwife permanently with me alone, the second in for lots of the time, and the gynaecologist spending lots of time too. She spotted an issue the midwives had missed, and they were asking questions about it. I got knocked out (GA) and transferred to ICU and don’t remember much, obviously. Then you get a standard week care in hospital after birth there in private rooms. There were always plenty of nurses around to help at all hours, I had tubes sticking in me and couldn’t stand up so they helped extensively with baby care at all hours of the day and night at first. Nothing was any trouble as there were plenty of staff who were not exhausted and also that was their job and what they were there to do. Cleaning was done regularly and not by the midwives / nurses.

Another thing that stands out is the amount of resources that were available. I could have asked for more. Anything needed was there and in quantity - no need to fight for a pack of wipes, justify the need in triplicate and log its use, just shove it on the insurance list. No need to measure tubing and justify every extra mm used. Paperwork down for that alone. There are many forms of ‘waste’.

The NHS is a firefighting system designed to keep acceptable numbers of people alive as cheaply as possible, with the priority of the two being cheap. Life is cheap here and replacements can be imported easily. It’s a system driven by numbers, with acceptable losses per £. The emphasis for the British government is on ticking stats boxes to make themselves look good in political games, which is why there’s interest in training staff. That’s one of the metrics. Quality of life and conditions for the staff - or for anyone working in Britain - and quality of care is not. Quality is difficult to measure on metrics, but there’s no interest in trying anyway and more interest in middle-class fads and fashions. The staff here do, in the main, what they can but they are demoralised, disempowered, exhausted, having to watch their backs, and see no benefit for working harder. Another element in Britain now is that it’s considered clever to work the system and socialise rather than do a job well, following the government’s example at the top. They have to be ‘assertive’ (can read abrupt and rude) to get people in through and out of the system as quickly as possible.