To think that this is excellent news in the absence of exams

[scoutingfornarwhals]

Gavin Williamson has said - He also reiterated that there would be "no algorithms whatsoever" used in determining A-level, AS and GCSE grades, with marks "firmly in the hands of teachers".

At last, the government are showing faith in teachers, i can relax about the exam results as my DCs teachers know them and they will get appropriate grades whether high, average or low.

It's about bloody time.

My Y11 has always gone unnoticed at school and doesn't ever do anything to draw attention. He is smart but doesn't want anyone to know and he hates praise. He is not very organised and does well in exams, typical late minute cramming style. I'd be surprised if the teachers knew him by sight let alone give him the scores he is capable of.

Not criticising teachers just being realistic about introverts in busy schools.

@Stroppyshite no he hasn’t had his final grade but his termly tracker

@Smileyaxolotl1 I hope you’re right because he did better than expected in his mocks but it wasn’t reflected in his tracker and they just said it had to take account of all his assessments. But I think his grade should reflect what he would get if he sat an exam not his overall performance from year 10 etc

@MoiraNotRuby sounds just like my DS. Did he sit mocks?

@Smileyaxolotl1

cocopogo

Teacher assessment doesn’t mean it’s just based on assessments in class. It means that they will look at the data. I wouldn’t worry if I were you. No school would ever give a school assessed grade lower than a child has achieved on a mock.

I wish this was true... it most definitely happened last year, when some of my students were moderated down. Historically not great school, kids were exceeding targets, which, apparently, was impossible.

cocopogo in these exceptional circumstances any sensible schools/teachers would go with the highest grades they have evidence for. On a tracker it may make sense to not put the higher mock grade to allow for a differing performance in a future exam (if this grade was higher than normal performance) but this should be adjusted in the final submission.

It isn't going to be perfect but no system is. Schools will surely do internal standardisation and moderation but maybe I am being naive. Our school spent a lot of time getting the results right and fair last year. They went through three different processes and backwards and forwards between subject heads, key stage heads and deputy heads until thoroughly scrutinised, analysed, moderated. Most of our results were not altered by the algorithm to be honest. I do hope this year is better for everyone's sake.

The problem is that kids are now at the mercy of whether they got along with their teachers, plus employers, universities etc will not trust their grades. Last years were significantly higher than the year before, expect this year to be the highest ever despite the young people knowing far less - not their fault but how can you say they have an a* in physics if they are incapable of passing the exam?

After initially feeling that parents had faith in the teaching profession when I posted on this thread, it’s now much more disappointing! The hardest thing about teaching is public perception of teachers. Trust your teachers they work hard and want the best for your children! Like someone else said, if the grades are slightly inflated that’s the least worst option isn’t it? When this was first suggested last year Twitter was full of people saying teachers will under predict we are all mean and hate students! Think everyone was a little surprised that they ended up being inflated and that we actually do like children and like teaching 😂. In addition, as another poster wrote, although inflation may happen, favouritism cannot as grades are moderated many times over so one student being favourited would be very obvious. If grades become too inflated that’s down to external moderators to lower everyone’s grade by, say, one grade. That’s why last year teachers had to literally rank order each student so everyone could be shifted up or down. Lastly, unfortunately yes some students massively overperform in the final exam compared to how they have been working but no one can predict that, not even an algorithm, and those students will always have the option to appeal or re-sit. The same applies to any students you feel your teachers don’t know (although many schools have the same teacher teach the class for year 10 and 11 so we know everyone well). In my opinion this is certainly the least bad option, the alternative being students sitting exams which would be extremely unfair after the year they have had. An exceptional year calls for exceptional circumstances.

Grades given at the discretion of teachers without tests to back them up are very subjective - teachers being only human and all that, and thus having their personal feelings about students, that can/will cloud their judgment.
Imagine being the poor sod whom Miss clearly doesn't like....
Also, such grading would benefit the girls as statistically, boys do better at exams - binge studying, girls, according to various statistics, at course-work.

@Awalkintime grade inflation will happen because of the benefit of the doubt. Let's say you have a child who's a borderline 7/8. That is, in normal times they should easily get a 7, and on a good day they might well get an 8. If they play an absolute blinder, they might even get a 9. In this new scenario, every teacher in the land would give this child at least a 7. Most would probably be encouraged by their school to give kids the benefit of the doubt in borderline cases, so would award an 8. Some, if their Head is particularly (ahem) bullish or if something like their university entry depends on it, would give a 9. But in real life, that child could well have got a 7 - and they could have of course have had a bit of a shocker on the day and got a 6 or lower.

You only need to repeat that 'benefit of the doubt' situation on a wide scale to produce massive grade inflation - you don't need deliberately over-inflated or stupidly unrealistic grades.

I think it is the least worst option. In many ways it is a fairer assessment of a student as it views their ongoing effort rather than single performance on a day.

Also if almost every teacher is overly generous then the playing field will remain equal.

I hope that in future years teacher assessment will become a bigger part of the grade. Crammers who do well in a final exam with little previous effort shouldn't get a better grade. This is fairer.

It's a disaster, grades will be completely worthless this year.

DS2 is very academic, in year 13, A levels this year,. He would have done very well in the exams, but sadly I think he'll be completely fucked by the inundation of equally high teacher assessed results.

How on earth are universities going to assess candidates in this cohort?

I am a teacher. Last year I assessed children as grade 3 and the algorithm gave them 9s. I am relieved that this now won't be possible.

Also if almost every teacher is overly generous then the playing field will remain equal.

The key word there is Almost. It won't be a level playing field for kids whose teachers are scrupulously fair.

Also spare a thought for the small but significant minority who are taking the IB, whose governing body is imposing a much stricter system - now up for university places against A level students who are being judged on teacher assessment.

rezoom
How can you give the benefit of the doubt if there isn't the full evidence to award another grade. If they are not secure at 8 then you must award a 7. That is how I've always done my assessments. If there is the evidence for an 8 then they get an 8. If not then they get a 7. I am a harsh person when it comes to grading and I've been told that and I dont bend any rules but I know my grades have always been accurate when moderated because I dont give the benefit of the doubt I go with the evidence presented and award accordingly. I have 2 moderation year groups EYFS and Y2 so its most years I get externally moderated so it is routine for me. It isn't about guessing what they would get on an exam is it and those that take that attitude will be the ones who fall short and it will get flagged up when moderated. Its about this is what this child can do and has shown you they can do. Your assessments should also reflect their data long term. If they were on track for a 7 and evidence suggests a 7 then that reflects the path they were on.

Grades will be inflated anyway, even if teachers are scrupulously fair. If you have three equally able students who are all predicted an 8, on the day in the exam one night have had a bad night's sleep, a panic attack, streaming eyes from hay fever, painful cramps from a heavy period- any number of reasons why they underperform and get a 7 or a 6. The problem is that without students sitting the exams there's no way for teachers to predict exam underperformance on the day, so they all have to be given the grade they're capable of achieving on a good day.

The grade inflation is inevitable but I don't think it's really a problem.

Say you have 5 students who should get a 7 - objectively, based on their previous work, not an aspirational prediction. In an exam situation, there's every chance that one of them might get a 6 - unlucky with questions, having a bad day, other things going on in their life that affect their exam performance. This happens all the time. It's unfortunate. It's also unpredictable. As a teacher, it'd be unfair of you to give one of your 5 students a 6 because you know it's likely not all of them would have achieved their 7 in the exam. There's no way to determine which of them would have underperformed.

This, on a large scale, leads to the inflation. It's not actually that the students aren't capable of the grades they're being awarded.

Just leave the pandemic years out of any future year-on-year comparison data and it's all fine.

This is what will happen.

Teachers and schools will work really hard, put in hours and hours going through every individual student's past performance. hey will look at the data they have collected on assessments for years. they will look at any coursework, classwork, anything, that each individual students has done and handed in. They will agonise over those who are borderline. They will discuss in their departments, with the head of dept, with the head of dept's line manager.

The senior leaders will look at the data. They will deliberate and compare to the results of previous years. They will compare to the results nationally and locally over previous years. This will take yet more hours and hours.

They will go back to the head's of dept and ask them to look again at the results if they feel they are too high or two low. The head of dept and the rest of the dpt will go back through the results and agonise some more. this will take hours.

Finally the results will have been entered into the system and checked and rechecked for accuracy. All of the staff involved will have worried and stressed and been worn to a frazzle.

On results day some parents will come on MN and complain that their child has been hard done by, that teachers have given high grades to their pets, and their child is a genius, but has hidden their academic talents for the past 11 years of schooling (for some bizarre reason), and so the teachers have done them wrong. Will threaten to sue the school. Will launch more time consuming appeals.

@MoiraNotRuby

My Y11 has always gone unnoticed at school and doesn't ever do anything to draw attention. He is smart but doesn't want anyone to know and he hates praise. He is not very organised and does well in exams, typical late minute cramming style. I'd be surprised if the teachers knew him by sight let alone give him the scores he is capable of.

Not criticising teachers just being realistic about introverts in busy schools.

I have over 100 students this year (A level) and I always notice my introverts. They're the ones I know can struggle without saying anything or have some great ideas but don't contribute to discussions, so I make sure I pay some extra attention to them, hopefully your DC's teachers do the same thing

@Awalkintime I'm not a teacher (though I know lots well), so you of course know more than me, but based on conversations I've had about this, children are not entirely scientifically trackable pieces of data. You can have a student who produces some work of a level reflecting a 7, and some work reflecting an 8. Of course, if they were sitting one exam to determine their outcome, then their grade would definitely fall on one side of that grade boundary or the other. But in this situation, you don't know which side of the boundary they would have fallen on the day. Fine, you say that if they're not a 'secure' 8 then you give them a 7. But surely it's the case that if you do this for all your students, then you will be under-estimating what a proportion of them would have scored in a real exam, as some very secure 7s would presumably have achieved an 8.

I thought when they relied on teacher assessments last time, overall, the pupils magically had the best results ever? So teachers were over inflating grades. However saying that I dont think there is a good solution to this

@singsingbluesilver

This is what will happen.

Teachers and schools will work really hard, put in hours and hours going through every individual student's past performance. hey will look at the data they have collected on assessments for years. they will look at any coursework, classwork, anything, that each individual students has done and handed in. They will agonise over those who are borderline. They will discuss in their departments, with the head of dept, with the head of dept's line manager.

The senior leaders will look at the data. They will deliberate and compare to the results of previous years. They will compare to the results nationally and locally over previous years. This will take yet more hours and hours.

They will go back to the head's of dept and ask them to look again at the results if they feel they are too high or two low. The head of dept and the rest of the dpt will go back through the results and agonise some more. this will take hours.

Finally the results will have been entered into the system and checked and rechecked for accuracy. All of the staff involved will have worried and stressed and been worn to a frazzle.

On results day some parents will come on MN and complain that their child has been hard done by, that teachers have given high grades to their pets, and their child is a genius, but has hidden their academic talents for the past 11 years of schooling (for some bizarre reason), and so the teachers have done them wrong. Will threaten to sue the school. Will launch more time consuming appeals.

Yes

@singsingbluesilver you have summed it up exactly.

And yes @singsingbluesilver, that certainly reflects the experience of teachers I know from last year.