To think that the Alex Salmond evidence story deserves to be given more importance by the U.K. news channels.

[Tamingofthehamster]

For a story all about corruption and overreaching power, which could potentially bring down the Scottish First Minister, why is it only ranking 20th in Sky News?

For posters who think that this is merely NS mixing up dates, please do read into this a bit more as this is actually much more than that.

If AS is telling the truth then it is corruption at the heart of government.

I am no fan of either but the more I hear of this the worse it gets.

Documents that were allowed to be published after a court hearing were suddenly redacted a day before AS was to appear to support his claims meaning that he couldn’t refer to the pertinent information. Why did the crown office instruct this and in what basis? This alone should raise questions.

He was also awarded £500k in damages due to claims made against him by the Scottish government, allegations their own legal team raised concerns over.

There is a really good thread about this on Scotsnet which goes into the details in a far more eloquent way than I am on this but please do learn wha this is really about as it’s really important- if it was Boris he would be gone by now!

The two highest people in the Scottish Govt are married. Who do they answer to?

Peter Murrell is nothing to do with the Scottish Government. He is the chief executive of the SNP.

I don’t know enough about the politics in Scotland: I’d guess most English people think the same, and that may be why it’s rated lower. Those ratings are determined by popularity to some extent, although I’ve seen them be manipulated certainly on the BBC before. Sky usually runs much the same news stories.

I’m intrigued by the timing of it all though. Like pp’s im not clear on Sturgeon’s responsibility and guilt here, but there were many comments about her comparatively favourable performance compared to Johnson until this blew up.

@Selkiesarereal my initial reaction to it all was "meh, who hasn't mixed up dates before"

It's so much darker and serious than that. The latest twist is the crown redacting evidence to save NIcola's skin. Totally corrupt and shocking.

The lord advocate stood up in parliament today and basically said "it wisnae me". Totally unacceptable.

I agree @Graffitiqueen on the surface it seemed to be pretty benign but is really bad and the events of this week with the judiciary is turning Scotland into a mockery.

Because it’s about Scotland

I did not know Salmond had received civil damages. If he did, then I think its a big problem for the Scottish Government and Nicola Sturgeon together with his criminal acquittal.

No wonder they don't want him giving evidence and no wonder he is furious. They won't shut him up now.

BBC front page today

The case was totally mishandled

Salmond will keep going even if it brings the party down

For me person personally. When he was found not guilty I was not surprised but somewhat pissed off. The message that 9 - NINE -separate women would willingly lie about sexual misconduct for political reasons seems unlikely to me. But that's what's been found and on that basis I don't see how any women in Scotland would feel comfortable reporting a sex offence again TBH.

(I mean it's shit in England too obviously).

On BBC1 News shortly (was in the headlines).

Why would nine women make stuff up? Why were they not believed? How is Salmond not in prison? That seems to be the most concerning aspect to me.

@WonkyCactus I used Government because she is first minister and he is the Chief Exec of the party who governs Scotland. I think people probably knew what I was saying.

It’s difficult to answer the point about “why would 9 women make it up” without breaching their anonymity but from what I’ve picked up they are a close circle, some with strong connections to the First Minister and some with ambitions to get picked for an SNP seat. I think if it was known who they were, the claims of conspiracy might have more weight. They aren’t 9 women from all over Scotland. But they are protected by a court order - which Salmond says he asked for!

One of the messages said to exist but being withheld from the enquiry is something like “I have a plan for us to get repercussions but stay anonymous” ie that the protection for sexual assault victims has been exploited for the purpose of damaging Salmond without the full story being able to be told. If true, that appals me.

@Graciebobcat - Craig Murray reports on Salmond’s defence here. He was cleared of the attempted rape because it was shown that the woman wasn’t in Bute House on the day she said it happened.

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/03/your-man-finally-in-the-public-gallery-the-alex-salmond-trial-day-7/

One of the messages said to exist but being withheld from the enquiry is something like “I have a plan for us to get repercussions but stay anonymous” ie that the protection for sexual assault victims has been exploited for the purpose of damaging Salmond without the full story being able to be told. If true, that appals me.

It should be remembered though that one of the big issues with the anonymity in this case is because several of the women who made accusations are well known.

For example on that Craig Murray site he comments "Salmond stated categorically that Ms H had not been at the dinner with the actor (whose name for reasons I do not understand the court also does not allow me to mention) in June 2014" when the reasons for him not being allowed to mention the actor is because anything that narrows down the exact date will lead to more chance of identifying the woman.

This case is likely going to have massive repercussions for the SNP, but more than that it's also going to have an impact on the liklihood of any women involved in Scottish politics reporting a sexual assault or rape ever again, or any woman who is assaulted by anyone involved in politics.

if it was Boris he would be gone by now!

Sadly I suspect not. We appear to have done beyond any accountability in politics. I’m not sure I can think what would dislodge our PM short of a criminal conviction.

Who actually cares about the salmon and sturgeon squabble? Both corrupt and toxic, both anti UK, good luck to Scotland

@justlyra - I think the case makes the argument that both the accused and the complainants should have anonymity until an accused man is found guilty.

The jury found Salmond not guilty but Sturgeon said in her press conference today that it didn’t mean he didn’t do it. Surely perilously close to libel?

The bigger problem seems to be allegations being made by Scots lawyers that the First Minister influenced the Prosecution Service in Scotland and leaned on them to prosecute Salmond.

Obviously, its a big problem when the Prosecution Service in a country can be influenced by government. It means there is no effective separation of powers for one thing, and in a country such as Scotland with only a unicameral parliament (ie it can pass legislation without it being revised or checked by a second body) thats a real concern.

Whilst AS has been found not guilty/not proven on all charges, I do feel that this has set back women’s rights in terms of reporting sexual offences.

I think it is shameful that this has been politicised and is turning into a farce.

As for the poster who didn’t know that AS had been awarded damages, yes he was -£500k of Scottish tax payers money was awarded due to the mishandling by the Scottish government who continued with the action despite being advised otherwise by their legal team.

[quote Happinessisawarmcervix]@justlyra - I think the case makes the argument that both the accused and the complainants should have anonymity until an accused man is found guilty.

The jury found Salmond not guilty but Sturgeon said in her press conference today that it didn’t mean he didn’t do it. Surely perilously close to libel?[/quote]
I don't think so. I think her comments were very carefully worded.

The behaviour complained of was found by a jury not to constitute criminal conduct and Alex Salmond is innocent of criminality, but that doesn’t mean the behaviour complained of didn’t happen and I think it’s important that we don’t lose sight of that

I can't stick Nicola Sturgeon, however on that one she's right. He didn't deny that the things happened, it was the consent, or lack thereof, that he denied. He still has a lot of questions to answer in terms of his position at the time and he's nicely deflecting that at the moment.

It's a travesty that the investigation was so fucked up by the SNP because it's very likely now that no decent investigation can be done without identifying the women.

Going forward women in Scotland, especially any involved in politics, will be much less likely to report sexual assaults or rapes thanks to this mess.

It should also be remembered that Alex Salmond blatantly lied in court as well. He denied pulling up the dress of one woman, but then had to admit he'd apologised to her for doing so.

No-one comes out of this looking particularly good.

Salmond likely comes out of it untouchable for any of his behaviour past or present.

@BlackCatShadow

I know many people in Scotland who have stories about how creepy Alex Salmond is. I suspect most people are just too distracted by covid at the moment and I've read a few articles about this and it's a hard story to follow exactly what happened.

Don't even have to be near that slimy man to smell the creepyness from him. If those women are lying, I'll eat my cat. He may have been found not guilty, but this case has been so corrupted that's not really surprising. Wait until he's died and it gets reopened, probably find him guilty then.

I keep seeing posts on MN, from people in England, about how great Sturgeon is and how she should be PM. Clearly, many people don't really look closely at what is happening here in divided Scotland. It's a travesty that the shambles which is Holyrood seems to go unreported by the UK media and unnoticed by the rest of the UK public. Its far more than just the Salmond issue.

He didn't deny that the things happened, it was the consent, or lack thereof, that he denied.

Don’t want to derail further but he did deny several of the allegations, including the attempted rape of Ms H. His defence was that it did not happen, she was not there on the date she claimed and witnesses backed him up.

@Pinkfreesias - I’ll hold up my hands and say until recently I was one of those people, I thought she was doing really well on Covid. But when she hung Joanna Cherry out to dry a real ugly side of her began to show.