To think getting into debt is incredibly easy?

[Username1917]

I had a comfortable upbringing, parents taught me “don’t buy what you can’t afford, saving is important” etc.

I got a job at 18 and a few months later was offered a credit card by my bank, for the first few months I paid it off in full religiously. Then I thought well I’ll just pay half this month and half next month, no big deal! Then it spiralled and I thought oh I’ll just switch to an interest free deal and pay it off before it ends. Then when the interest free deal expired I got a loan over 5 years because it was “much cheaper” per month.

Before I knew it I had debt (including PCP car) the same level as my salary, at the time that seemed very manageable.

I’m lucky that I have a well paid job now and have paid it off in full. It’s given me a right kick up the bum and now I have no debt, but AIBU to think this is not uncommon, even having grown up with parents that tried to teach me about money?

I love it when people say they just don't get into debt, don't spend it you don't have it. Well your child needs new shoes and you don't have it what do you do? Shoes are difficult to find in good condition second hand for free. So then you have a small debt. Then they need some bigger pants. More debt. Then you have make the repayments making you overdrawn. That's the spiral

Rubbish. If I truly couldn't afford new shoes, I'd sell something to get the money, I wouldn't just whack it on a credit card I can't afford to repay. Decent school shoes can be had very cheap, I buy them in Tesco when they are marked down (just got some for youngest DD for 4 pounds).
Lets not get ridiculous and pretend people in are in crippling credit card debts for school shoes and pants

It's very easy to condescend and patronise people for being in debt when you have a comfortable and reliable income. What seems like a small amount to you could mean going into your overdraft or using a credit card for others.

It's very easy to condescend and patronise people for being in debt when you have a comfortable and reliable income. What seems like a small amount to you could mean going into your overdraft or using a credit card for others

I think its pretty clear I don't have a comfortable and reliable income when I buy 4 quid school shoes, don't you think?
It's actually easy to know when people are talking bollocks when you are in the same or worse situation.

Is it any easier to explain trigonometry or algebra which is what happens in Maths lessons anyway and arguably a lot less useful for most pupils who'll never use it in real life. Every pupil will need to deal with money/debt in their future lives.

Just because something is "hard" doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.
It's not hard to teach. It's just like pulling teeth because whereas learning maths topics leads logically onto later topics, and students know they need their GCSE Maths to progress into employment or at a higher level for certain courses, where's the logical progression from 'this fortnight in PSHE we are studying credit cards so that in 5 years time when you see credit cards you know how they worked 5 years ago'.
I agree with promoting financial literacy and covering issues of debt, savings etc as a thread within PSHE. I'm not entirely convinced that teaching 13 year olds about mortgages and credit cards is going to be retained when they're in their mid 20s, and that the problem of 20somethings spending too much is because a teacher didn't sit them down in Year 10 and say 'it's probably best to avoid being in debt, except all these types of debt that are ok, and these types of products that can be used responsibly even though they might not be on the market when you're old enough to use them'.

Financial topics are covered in PSHE, not maths. The purpose of maths lessons is to study mathematics, get basic numeracy, and lay the foundations for further study in related areas if that's something a student wants to do. I really struggle with the education arguments that go 'some people haven't used algebra/poetry so we should teach life skills instead'. A utilitarian view of school wouldn't be a good quality education.

There comes a point where the answer to society's issues has to be considered more broadly than 'make schools teach it'. I'd argue it's far more useful for schools to be promoting research skills, critical thinking, how to compare and contrast different products/courses/jobs so that students are given the capacity to be independent. And of course, parenting plays a role as well because a couple of hours a week PSHE does not solve the problem of parents not promoting life skills.

Schools don't need to teach financial management, parents do. Unfortunately many parents don't have a clue about it either.

*obviously not all parents.

I just find that it's a knee jerk response to most topics at the moment to say 'some parents don't promote (insert life skill or social topic), and parents think children should know it... tell schools to teach it'.
It would be much better to build financial literacy in adults and parents so they can talk to their own children about the issues. That will be much better than 3 hours in a school year within PSHE.

You can still be financially literate and still end up in debt.

You can still be financially literate and still end up in debt

Of course you can, but you can't blame it on anyone but yourself.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing it's Mr Micawber in David Copperfield. He is a veiled reference to Charles Dickens' own father who ended up in debtors prison.

@GnomeDePlume thanks! That would have annoyed me not remembering!

@hatedbytheDailyMail

You can still be financially literate and still end up in debt

Of course you can, but you can't blame it on anyone but yourself.

Really?

I'm not sure I agree that 'you only have yourself to blame'.

Losing your job, having a low income while needing to pay rent/mortgage and bills can mean credit cards and overdrafts are your only option. And as for 'just sell stuff', not everyone has that luxury.

Overdraft charges are extortionate and very difficult to get out of if you don't get a sudden financial windfall.

@hatedbytheDailyMail I don't have anything left to sell. I have sold my nice clothes from pre kids, everything from my hair straighteners to photo frames to my jewellery, I had one nice Platinum ring that was my mums, but it was tiny and worn quite thin and I got £36 for it. I'm not married to DP so no wedding rings or engagement ring to sell. I have tried selling old toys on marketplace, and managed to sell some, but most I try to keep as I have a younger child too. Covid has impacted our family business and we haven't been able to get help as we are a limited company.

Our clothes are all supermarket and worn to death or if I'm lucky someone gives me some much appreciated hand me downs for the kids. I have 5 tops, 3 bras, 3 jumpers and 3 pairs of jeans and some Tesco socks and knickers I wear on rotation, luckily I WFH. Similar with the kids limited stuff wash and wear more than once a week, but it means it's not sell-on-able and no one will pay loads for very worn cheap stuff, so would need to be bundled to sell. Tricky if stained or gets pen on it.

I think a lot of people are in my situation, they have a house but very little to live on, they have a massive rent or mortgage, and are one exploded washing machine or new car tyre from debt, because that's life in the South East, but we can't run our business in the North as it's around London.

Btw I'm not complaining, I'm saying how it is for many people. I'd love to have more money yes, but I am grateful for what I do have.

Losing your job, having a low income while needing to pay rent/mortgage and bills can mean credit cards and overdrafts are your only option

People who don't have credit cards or overdrafts don't starve to death in the streets when they lose their jobs. What do you think they do?

@hatedbytheDailyMail

Losing your job, having a low income while needing to pay rent/mortgage and bills can mean credit cards and overdrafts are your only option

People who don't have credit cards or overdrafts don't starve to death in the streets when they lose their jobs. What do you think they do?

You’re shameless, aren’t you?

Not just the daily mail I suspect. I feel sorry for your family.

Absolutely. I’m a single parent on a low income and the promise of being able to buy things without paying in full via store cards, catalogues and credit cards lured me right in. I’ve ended up in so much debt and I’m desperately trying to get out of it now! I’m getting there slowly, probably be debt free by the time I’m a pensioner. It’s absolutely my own stupid fault but I do think they prey on idiots like me on low incomes and no sense.

Yes its easy to get into debt for a multitude of reasons, some of which maybe bad decisions and some of which can be circumstances.
Credit is be very easily offered and freely advertised and seem as a normal way of living which can quickly get out of control, Interest on debt can easily spiral meaning your paying off interest and not the debt so its
easy to get into debt and hard to get out off.
Personally i think its harder with a family, you can hardly go without new school shoes, not go on school trip or live on beans on toast for a month. Many have no choice but to use credit cards if the car breaks down or boiler needs replacing.

Not just the daily mail I suspect. I feel sorry for your family

Bit mean. It's a sensible question, what do people do when they don't have credit cards or overdrafts to fall back on? Many don't.

@AtSwimTwoBerts

Not just the daily mail I suspect. I feel sorry for your family

Bit mean. It's a sensible question, what do people do when they don't have credit cards or overdrafts to fall back on? Many don't.

There are other ways to get money...some of which aren't regulated

www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/loan-sharks-target-vulnerable-on-social-media-238303/

Loan sharks are using online platforms to advertise their predatory lending activities and target potential victims.

"People throughout our communities are struggling financially due to the pandemic and the increased pressures to not only meet monthly bills but also the added expense of Christmas may make them more at risk of being targeted by illegal money lenders

www.gateshead.gov.uk/article/16955/Warning-of-loan-shark-dangers-in-Gateshead

Councillor Malcolm Brain, Gateshead Council's Cabinet Member for Economy said: "Loan sharks are like parasites preying upon the most vulnerable members of society, targeting them and seeking them out, offering to help them out with what they immediately need but at a terrible long-term cost. We are very much aware of the devastating impact loan sharks have on the lives of their victims and we're determined to do all we can in Gateshead to eradicate them.

"We're working closely with the IMLT and our local credit union NEFirst to ensure residents are aware that there's a legal, ethical and affordable alternative to illegal lending. We urge anyone who isn't able access mainstream credit from the high street for whatever reason, to think twice about their next move and consider using a credit union before a loan shark

She found herself in financial hardship and borrowed £50 from someone she considered a friend to buy school uniforms for her children but ended up paying an estimated £35,000.

It led to her attempting to take her own life after falling in debt and receiving terrifying threats from an ominous "Big Man."

Becky and her husband were both unemployed at the time, and with no access to a bank account, credit cards or able to get a loan, she felt she had no option but to accept the cash from the woman posing as her friend.

She said: "I had the £50 in 15 minutes. It seemed like easy money, but I didn't realise the dangers.

"The first time I was in arrears she added another £150 on top. So, you could borrow £50 one week, and owe £100 the next. But if you couldn't pay it would be £250 in a fortnight, £400 in three weeks.

"The most I ever owed was £1,500. She was taking hundreds a week off me, and I had to use food banks

I was lucky, my mum built her business while I was young so I saw how she managed money. My dad also likes to spend money but has never been in debt for it - he’s also shown me how to shop in budget and live to my means. He sat me down when I was 15/16 and explained exactly how mortgages work, interest, overdrafts... etc.
Very very lucky.
I think schools could really incorporate a lot more into maths - budgeting, figuring out what you have leftover, percentages, interest and different types of interest and how it’s calculated. A lot of people don’t have a clue how to calculate it!
We’re very open about finances and share new information about investments, savings accounts, etc. I’m very thankful for it and totally see how lots of people don’t have that support.

I find it a bit that people claim not to have been taught about money management, but I do agree most of the teaching is non specific and poorly explained (I find maths teachers can tend to be invested in the children who are good at the calculations, and not great at explaining the importance of some of the things they're teaching - maths explained by chemistry and biology teachers at my school was a lot more interesting).

But the key advantage I'd say that's meant I've never been in debt is learning delayed gratification. We lived rurally when I was a child, and there was no such thing as getting something now. It's no trouble at all to me to defer a purchase until I have the money, and to talk myself down to a more sensibly priced option.

(I read the OP and literally thought... I can't imagine making any of those decisions now, when I earn almost 60k - I still have a cheaper phone than my less well off friends)

How much harder could it be? You have to apply for credit, get approved and then spend the money. What other barriers would you want to be put up?

I think credit is a good thing. If your car breaks and you need it to get to work and you don't have any money, it is a lot better to borrow than lose your job.

There shouldn't be restrictions on credit because to stop people blowing £10k on shopping and then blaming it on education. You don't need lessons to teach that borrowing money means you have to pay it back. People need to take responsibility for understanding the agreements they enter into, even 18 year olds. If they don't they can learn the hard way.

I was never taught about money management...but I have never been in debt either. Never had a credit card, I was offered an overdraft in university and I didn't take it. You don't need to be exclusively taught these things...a lot of it is common sense.