Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What is the point?

37 replies

mumoftwoplus1 · 23/02/2021 18:47

Today was the HM courts and tribunal appeal for my CMS case against exp who despite having a 35k car and SEVEN PROPERTIES which he rents out.....is not required to pay any child maintenance for his almost 10 year old child

I cannot believe it. I feel crushed. How could I have lost my appeal. His excuse? Well he has zero income of course, (his car and seven properties are paid for by thin air, naturally).

So what is the point of HM tribunal and court service? They have no power to do anything just like CMS have no power. What is the point in having a law which states it's illegal in the uk to not support your child financially.

Because he is not PAYE (he quit his datytime accountancy job when CMS caught up with him) he has fiddled all the numbers and has made it look like he has £1.17 of annual income ConfusedI had proof of all his properties, of his very expensive car plus various other info such as when he text me to let me know he could see DC for his usual contact be asked he was off to France to see a movie Shockand various other long haul destinations he went to (before lockdown of course)

So what now? Accept that I will never receive any financial help ever because of this flawed and useless system we have here in the UK?

Give up? Has anyone ever found themselves in this situation?

The judge was mad, being lied to by this con artist, and I got the feeling he was really frustrated at having no power to look into his finances. The advice I was given was that only HMRC have the power to look into finances...but I have contacted them many times via the fraud number and they are just not interested. The is just set up for men like him to screw over women and children amd it needs to change now!

Thank you for reading if you got this far, I really need to vent

OP posts:
ThereWillBeSun · 23/02/2021 18:49

If the properties and the car are registered in a company name, then they won't even be his assets.

MrsMercedes · 23/02/2021 18:54

this is pretty standard for this kind of thing

what were you led to expect from it?

Original poster
mumoftwoplus1 · 23/02/2021 19:00

@ThereWillBeSun they're not registered in a company, all in his name

@MrsMercedes I really thought HM courts amd tribunals would have a bit more power than CMS. Because what is the point in having a tribunal hearing if they just go with what he tells them and what he put on his tax return?

It was pointless.

Why can't there be a system that investigates men like this who deliberately evade paying tax and child maintenance, there must be plenty of other men out there doing the same amd screwing over their own children Sad

OP posts:
Berthatydfil · 23/02/2021 19:17

That’s awful - there should be penalties against these men like removal of their passports or driving licence.

Original poster
mumoftwoplus1 · 23/02/2021 20:07

I have read here on Mumsnet about this happening to some guys who refuse to pay when they can more than afford to. Also read that some were forced to sell their house etc so there must be a way! I just don't know how Sad

OP posts:
Ileflottante · 23/02/2021 20:09

I just cannot understand who wilfully (and often boastfully) deprive their children of financial support, just to spite their ex partners.

Absolute cunts.

Skyvanilla22 · 10/03/2021 07:36

Late to the party but I wanted to comment. I have the option of going to a tribunal but I really don’t think I have the mental energy.

My ex has dodged paying for years paying the minimum amount as apparently earns under the minimum wage?!
But the good news I had yesterday following a call from CMS was that he’s been claiming he has a child staying with him so he has been in receipt of child benefit for many years meaning a reduction in my payments. Long story short he has been caught &CMS. have been provided with evidence proving he infect does not have a child resident with him. A back payment has accrued so he’s now forced to pay me extra.
The big issue is his manager pays him cash in hand, and only declares a small amount to HMRC resulting in my small weekly payment.

I phoned Tax evasion hotline who told me that the CMS have their own investigation department & they should be investigating this.
When I say this to CMS they say it’s Tax evasion who investigate!!!
It’s utterly shocking that this happens. I’m at a loss as to what to do.

Duckduckduck123 · 10/03/2021 07:38

Flowers sorry you're going through this

purpleboy · 10/03/2021 08:06

What a bastard, so sorry. Absolute scum of the earth to do that to your own child.
Does he have contact with your son?

Meme69 · 10/03/2021 08:20

I feel for you. My sons Dad has his own cash in hand business but claims disability benefits. When I claimed CM 20 years ago I was awarded £5 a week and so he promptly signed off for 1 month which stopped my payments. It took the CMS 8 years(!!!!) to realise he had been claiming them again and they took £5 a week again, however he then took out crisis loans and budgeting loans and of course, the government decided their need to be paid that back was far more important than paying me my CM so I didn't get any while that was paid back for 2 years.

I then gor switched from the old service where they took the money directly to the new one and they told me I had to come to an amicable arrangement with him to pay it. Bearing in mind that I had to leave him in the middle of the night with the clothes on my back to go to a refuge as he was a violent vicious man, who beat me and my son, they then proceeded to give him my new name and address so he could contact me to sort it out!! I had to get a police flag put on my address and alarms installed. I was terrified.

Eventually they agreed to take it directly from his benefits again. I gave them details of the bank account he got paid into, where he ran his business from (his next girlfriend who he raped gave me all the details after he tried to kill her) and they refused to investigate it. Said they had no power. I reported it to HMRC who also did nothing.

My son is now 20 and he still owes me £100s and yet, on his 18th birthday they decided that they wanted to write off what he owed me!!! No, fucking, way. I fought them hard to keep the claim open. I don't need the money. It has always just gone into a savings account for my son, but that's not the point, he owes me that and my son even more.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but I honestly don't think you will ever get a penny from him.

Best advice I can give is that no amount of money is worth your, or your child's mental health.

My son has no interest in his Dad and his Dad has never had a chance to prison him the way he has done for his other children. That, is worth everything.

Skyvanilla22 · 10/03/2021 10:13

He’s really not interested in our daughter. He’s totally inept.
But he’s the loser in all of this as my daughter is now coming to realise what type of person he is. This is what keeps me going.

hamstersarse · 10/03/2021 10:18

I know it is awful.

My DD18 burst out crying about 4 months ago when he realised that hid dad had dodged child maintenance for many years. I hadn't seen him cry for years.

It is such an insult to the children when they realise that their parent wouldn't even contribute to their upbringing. One that is hard to reconcile for them and feeds into all sorts of 'was I not good enough' rhetoric. I despair of parents who do this to get back at the other parent when it is only the child who ultimately suffers. I have no advice as to how to resolve it, and I don't even think the karma that comes is worth it. But what I do know is that people like this do not change, from my experience.

hamstersarse · 10/03/2021 10:20

*DS

Youngatheart00 · 10/03/2021 10:24

Do you have a solicitor?

Skyvanilla22 · 10/03/2021 10:48

No but I could get one. I feel like the entire system is corrupt.
I want to fight this. There is NO WAY an adult working full time is earning £5p/h. Who has a house, rent to pay & lives a normal life.
It’s simple maths.

Youngatheart00 · 10/03/2021 16:09

I would speak to citizens advice (if you haven’t already) about legal representation. I agree with you that the situation, based on what you’ve said, is blatantly unfair.

Citizens advice should be able to put you in touch with a solicitor who can discuss your case and will likely only take it on if they believe you have a good chance of winning. And if you do, it is highly likely he would be liable for the cost, not you.

Please don’t stand for this blatant unfairness!!!

JosieJarker · 10/03/2021 16:36

What a piece of scum he is.
How these men think its fine to not provide for their own children, its a disgrace that they're able to get away with it.
I cant advise you about court or cms because I've never bothered with them, not worth the stress for the crappy amount I'd get, my ex is a lazy sod, will pay voluntarily when he works which is unfortunately not very often.
Ive probably had a years worth of payments in 12 years.

Skyvanilla22 · 11/03/2021 09:15

I’ve been informed this morning that my ex is being investigated by CMS financial investigation team.
I don’t feel particularly confident but at least it’s something!

Skyvanilla22 · 14/03/2021 10:47

Can I ask about your tribunal please? Was this following an investigation Smile

Original poster
mumoftwoplus1 · 16/03/2021 21:11

@Skyvanilla22 that's brilliant that the FIU are looking into him!

I was contacted by the FIU after my case was referred to them but unfortunately they were unable to investigate because of a mistake made by the case worker who referred Sadprotocol had to be followed so it went back to square one. I appealed this which them meant it went to the tribunal, but the tribunal have no powers at all! Seems like the FIU are more fit for purpose for men who lie about their income.

I'm going to appeal the tribunal decision anyway, I'm going to write to my MP. I'm going to keep plugging away at this with the help of my partner. This loop which they are all using needs to be closed. CMS/the government and HMRC are enabling people like this to get away with it.

My ex earns approximately 80k per year and doesn't even pay a penny in tax because he offsets his income as a "loss"

OP posts:
EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 16/03/2021 21:34

what's the point of having a thread title that gives no indication of the subject of the thread?

User5747384 · 16/03/2021 21:47

How disgusting! Can't say I am surprised though,
They are absolutely useless.
Your ex sounds vile.

Youngatheart00 · 16/03/2021 23:12

What are the losses he is claiming? Are they spurious and / or living expenses? Do you have companies house records to evidence this?

Original poster
mumoftwoplus1 · 17/03/2021 12:03

@Youngatheart00 he brought forward property business losses of over 150k. He claims that the losses were made up of a combination of acquisition costs, finance costs and repairs and renewals. Those were his exact words to the tribunal judge. His annual accounts show income of 80k with substantial sums for repairs and renewals and finance costs set off as expenses. Obviously this explanation is not credible and the judge knew that, but they have zero power to do anything about it

OP posts:
Original poster
mumoftwoplus1 · 17/03/2021 12:20

I have just found an article on this which writes beautifully about this exact loophole and how CMS don't want to deal with it because it is regarded as resource intensive, but mumsnet won't let me add the link

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.