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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that there are some things you don't understand if you don't have children?

25 replies

stripeymama · 03/11/2007 22:54

I have a friend, same age as me (26) who has made the decision that she doesn't want kids. Which is all well and good, its up to her.

Anyway, during a discussion the other night between us and another (childless male) friend about drinking during pregnancy (v. dodgy ground I now know), I commented that unless you have been pregnant you don't have the same understanding of how the advice given can be confusing and overwhelming. She went a bit ott at that IMO, saying that she is fed up of people telling her that her opinions are not valid just because she doesn't have kids. It turned into a bit of an arguement then, with me saying that I didn't think that at all and her insisting that I must do.

People who do not have children have the same ability to care for them, teach them, love them etc, but as with any major life experience you need to have it for yourself to have a full understanding of it - or don't you?

She has a tendency to think she is right about everything and is very touchy and easily offended. I also suspect that her defensiveness about this (its not the first time she has said this sort of thing) may mean that she is not sure about her own decisions. So AIBU to think she is just being a bit of a stroppy moo?

OP posts:

Doodledootoo · 03/11/2007 23:01

Message withdrawn

jajas · 03/11/2007 23:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HonoriaGlossop · 03/11/2007 23:02

I think you're right and you do need to experience it to get a full understanding.

i do think though that it's a complete conversation killer to just say 'you can't have the same understanding because you haven't done it'. i think it can come across as devaluing what others say; I think it's less divisive to say "the advice is confusing and overwhelming, and personally I found it felt even more so when I was pregnant myself".

i can see why she got defensive; but you are right.

Niecie · 03/11/2007 23:12

No YANBU.

You can really have no comprehension of what it is like to have a child until you actually have your own. You can know all the theory in the world, have every qualification going and it would still make no difference in the end. It isn't about the practical stuff, is it. What you don't know until you have them is what it feels like.

I always felt that midwifes should have had their own children, for example. They have that extra understanding that the childless midwives just don't have.

She may well not be sure about her decision not to have children but feels a bit foolish for making a statement rather than keeping quiet about it. Plenty of women don't decide until much later. At 26 I didn't want them and I didn't until I was 33. There is plenty of time for her to change her mind.

PeachesMcScreamWhizzBangFizz · 03/11/2007 23:12

No she does sound like a stroppy moo. But I find women without children are often so very defensive about it that it can come across as stroppy. I know several women who have chosen not to have kids, and frankly I don't give two hoots about that (and can totally understand their reasons and their individual situations) but they treat it like it's a great fight for them and they're constantly under pressure to conform. (sorry for the sweeping generalisation - not all childless women have An Ishoo with this)

havalina · 03/11/2007 23:16

I agree that you're right, all of the confusing and contradictory advice you are given whilst pregnant, by friends, parents, the government etc. Cannot possibly affect a non parent, in the way that it does one who has gone through pregnancy and birth.

Anyone can have an opinion, and it is equally as valid, but until you have been through it, you really don't know what your end opinion will be regarding childcare topics.

Original poster

stripeymama · 03/11/2007 23:17

Totally agree and I hardly ever say the whole "as a parent" thing, and I try to take all my friends opinions seriously. I have even been known to ask friends without kids for their opinion on child related stuff, as its good to get ideas from different perspectives and all that.

i just got pissed off with her that time and felt like she was the one being condescending in a way - like my experience of motherhood wasn't really worth anything. I think its just an ongoing thing though, she doesn't really like kids and is always coming out with stuff like "women who have accidental pregnancies are stupid" (she really said that once).

Hey ho.

OP posts:

bunnyhunny · 03/11/2007 23:18

omg there is sooooooo much I didn't understand until I had kids (just ask my long-suffering best mate who had kids well before I did)!!! my attitude towards children and parenting is so very different now.

but I can completely see where she is coming from. When I didn't have children, as I had no idea about the minefield that is parenting, I would have found it very patronising and consdescending for someone to tell me I couldn't understand something beacuse I didn't have children. No matter how true that may be.

lennygirl · 03/11/2007 23:20

Message withdrawn

Original poster

stripeymama · 03/11/2007 23:30

Does her dog wear clothes by any chance?

OP posts:

havalina · 03/11/2007 23:31

"women who have accidental pregnancies are stupid"

This will be about 50% of women then (like men have nothing to do with it) yeuch.

bunnyhunny · 03/11/2007 23:32

the thing is, that a childless person doesn't KNOW that they don't know isywim

havalina · 03/11/2007 23:34

I talk to a lady who talks about her dogs constantly, she is lovely but I wonder about her really, I mean who sends birthday cards from dogs? Have a child fgs. Some dogs are obvious child replacers.

Original poster

stripeymama · 04/11/2007 10:54

On further reflection I still think she is being a stroppy moo.

Yes it is condescending and insensitive to say that someone "doesn't understand if they don't have children". I would never say that as a generalisation.

But IMO its arrogant and ignorant for her to insist that she understands certain aspects of motherhood (she has said this sort of thing before) when she has nothing to do with any children whatsoever, and actually says she doesn't even like them.

I think I am just generally pissed off with her. Can be hard to maintain friendships once you are a parent sometimes.

OP posts:

MrsTittleMouse · 04/11/2007 11:24

Hm, I have to say that I would never presume to know anyone's situation if I hadn't been in it, so she's definitely being unreasonable.
But..... when I was infertile, one of the most hurtful things was when friends with children told me that "life had meaning" or that they had some deeper understanding of the universe, or that they were somehow better people, because they had children. I'm not saying that you do this, just that other people might have and made her more defensive than she would have been.
Maybe I'm strange, but I don't think that I'm a different person since having DD, just that I have an extra person to love (which is lovely) and a new set of skills.

Original poster

stripeymama · 04/11/2007 11:36

I am the same person too, but have a new perspective. I am definitely not a better person, in fact I have struggled with motherhood (as she knows). Lots of my friends are childless as I'm a fairly young parent and like to spend time doing non-mum things. I don't think having a child gives you a deeper understanding of the universe or any such guff - but it does give you deeper understanding of, well, having a child.

OP posts:

macdoodle · 04/11/2007 16:57

Actually I think you are right - bizarrely enough when i didn't have kids I would have thought you were wrong so it is one of those things that you don't get until you actually have kids ...bit of a clockwork orange really

lucyellensmum · 04/11/2007 17:07

I do think that childless peoples opinions count, but until you actually have children, you dont understand how it all becomes a huge deal! My childless friends seem to be falling by the wayside, probably because of lack of contact, but on occasions i have not gone out for not wanting to leave DD. They think im geing lazy about going out and not making the effort. My priorities are different now, if going out means i am going to upset DDs sleep pattern due to leaving her with DP (hes useless at getting her to bed!) or with DM (we do this on a rare occasion but make sure she is in bed first, if it is at night) then i would really rather not go, because we battle with sleep anyway, so why make it worse.

So its not just the unwanted advice, but the expectations of childless friends that can be challenging. Its just different is all, you cannot possibly understand the love a parent feels for its child until you have one. Its as simple as that.

expatinscotland · 04/11/2007 17:10

YANBU

i have a good friend who doesn't have kids.

she doesn't understand how demanding they are.

thinks i must be 'bored' not working and that working and going to school full-time is just as bad as looking after two little kids.

lol!

kindersurprise · 04/11/2007 17:15

Before I had children I got into some discussions with friends about this because I was sure that I would not feel or decide differently if I was a mum.

I look back and cringe. Yes, there are a (very) few things that I still feel the same way about and my opinions on childrearing have changed completely. But there are also many things that I would have judged differently back then.

Unfortunately, once you have children it can be difficult to stay friends with nonparents as they often find it difficult to understand the everyday problems that we face.

I really hate when I hear someone say, "Well, personally, as a parent..." Aargh!

lennygirl · 04/11/2007 18:12

Message withdrawn

kittycrackles · 04/11/2007 18:16

Oh God, my mother sends cards from her rotten dogs. She's a far better "parent" to her dogs than she ever was to me

Beachcomber · 04/11/2007 18:22

I think there are loads of aspects of having children that you don't understand until you have them. The only thing is, you don't realise that until you actually have them IYSWIM.

Original poster

stripeymama · 04/11/2007 18:45

Kittycrackles - has she seenthese?

I'll just keep my mouth shut in future and hope she chills out about it all and stops being so blardy defensive.

OP posts:

kittycrackles · 04/11/2007 19:41

Stripey

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