That £26.50/hour for weeding is insanity?

[LaBellySausage]

I'm looking for someone to come around for 3 hours/week to help with weeding the garden.

I was given a couple of names of local people who do gardening. I expected to pay somewhere between £10-12/hour, perhaps £15/hour if the person was an experienced gardener. I believe minimum wage is £8something but I don't think people can live on that.

The first person wouldn't give a quote til they came to view the garden and then was hesitant to give an hourly rate, preferring to give a rate for 'the job'. It's not a job that can be finished- it's like when I shave my legs the bastards on the other one have started growing back when I start the second. I just want a few weeds less per week. He eventually said £18/hour. I thanked him for his time but said it was a bit more than I had budgeted. The second guy said £26.50/hour!

This is simple weeding. Trowel and hoe provided. £26.50/hour is about £55,000 annually.

I worked jobs like this while in uni at minimum wage. For reference, we live in a very inexpensive part of the country- he would not be weeding Chelsea Flower Show. Both candidates were local so didn't have more than a 5/10 minute drive.

Am I being unreasonable, or is this a crazy rate?

I have to pay a mortgage, and therefore need a regular, reliable job. I don't have the luxury of not working when the weather is bad or in winter. I have to pay that mortgage. I also had to get the mortgage in the first place, which was only possible because I had a regular, salaried job
Do you really not know this stuff

So when you said that it seems strange that a gardener earns more than a TA, you've realised that your job is more secure than theirs and probably you might even earn more than them?

So that's why the gardener can charge what they can.

I have to pay a mortgage, and therefore need a regular, reliable job. I don't have the luxury of not working when the weather is bad or in winter. I have to pay that mortgage. I also had to get the mortgage in the first place, which was only possible because I had a regular, salaried job.

Me too @GreenlandTheMovie

I'm self employed in a seasonal job. I still pay my mortgage every month because I understand about cash flow and recognise what I need to do to make sure I can support myself and my children. Both options are value. One is not better than the other. Why the superior attitude?

Self employed can set their own rates- if someone is willing to pay it then it’s a win, if no one is willing to pay it they’ll drop their rates. I quote too high if I don’t want the job. And that could be for any reason. Something as simple as the prospective client giving off “pain in the arse” vibes. I learned that lesson the hard way.

@JackieWeaverIsTheAuthority

Self employed can set their own rates- if someone is willing to pay it then it’s a win, if no one is willing to pay it they’ll drop their rates. I quote too high if I don’t want the job. And that could be for any reason. Something as simple as the prospective client giving off “pain in the arse” vibes. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Hah! Me too @JackieWeaverIsTheAuthority

@chomalungma

I have to pay a mortgage, and therefore need a regular, reliable job. I don't have the luxury of not working when the weather is bad or in winter. I have to pay that mortgage. I also had to get the mortgage in the first place, which was only possible because I had a regular, salaried job Do you really not know this stuff

So when you said that it seems strange that a gardener earns more than a TA, you've realised that your job is more secure than theirs and probably you might even earn more than them?

So that's why the gardener can charge what they can.

I did say earlier that you make a choice to be self-employed. That choice might mean you don't work over winter or slack periods, or struggle to get a mortgage. I don't think its any secret that gardening isn't something you go into to make a fortune or even a particularly reliable wage, unless you are (a) very very good and talented or (b) very, very reliable. If you're happy to sit at home 3 months of the year, as with anything, you will most likely be relying on someone else to subsidise or support you, inheritance or savings, or benefits.

So yes, anyone can "charge" what they want. It doesn't mean to say they will get much work, if any, at that rate.

OP you don't need a professional gardener so don't advertise for one. You don't need someone with tools or insurance or horticultural training.

If you have a local community facebook page or similar advertise on there for a labourer/odd jobs person. I'd see if you can get a teenager in, they will be happy with a tenner an hour.

@GreenlandTheMovie

I actually tried to employ a freelancer to work 2 hours per day, 5 days per week. It was the sort of job anyone could do after a day or two's training. I got someone quoting £22.50 per hour PLUS £5 travel (and one of them only lived 3 miles away!). That would have been over £10,000 per year for 2 hours a day work. Thats over £55,000 per year for no overtime and little responsibility plus your travel to work costs paid. Insurance was about £300 per year. None of them had any interest in a regular 2 hours per day (or more) job for a lower hourly rate.

It just wasn't feasible. Not all freelancers want to work hard, some of them definately want to have a lot of time off but do a few jobs with a high hourly rate. I can't think that would lead to anything but poverty as there can only be a very few willing and able to pay that much.

No it isn't. At £22.50 an hour for ten hours plus a fiver travel, it's no more than £13,000. Taking the travel out of that would mean they would earn a maximum of £11,700 (less if you didn't pay them for 52 weeks a year). Add into that that they wouldn't be able to get another job for at least half the day, depending upon the hours you wanted them to do, and it really wasn't the highly paid professional rate you are claiming them to be demanding.

So yes, anyone can "charge" what they want. It doesn't mean to say they will get much work, if any, at that rate

Exactly.

You charge what you can get away with and hope you get enough money to support yourself.

Schools pay what they do for TAs because they get away with it and there are enough qualified people to do the job.

If there weren't enough TAs, then schools would need to incentivise people to want to become TAs in some way.

[quote LaBellySausage]@Blondeshavemorefun but I'm not intending to pay nmw. I said £10 for young/inexperienced. £15 for more experienced and older. Why is everyone banging on about nmw- I have never suggested nmw.[/quote]
£15 is still a low amount for a professional

Esp

Once taken tax ni 2&4 / pli / travel /tool cost

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

OP you don't need a professional gardener so don't advertise for one. You don't need someone with tools or insurance or horticultural training.

If you have a local community facebook page or similar advertise on there for a labourer/odd jobs person. I'd see if you can get a teenager in, they will be happy with a tenner an hour.

Wrong. Anyone who works on someone else's property or with members of the public needs insurance. If they don't, then it's lucky they don't need it but it's really stupid to suggest people shouldn't have any kind of insurance if they're working on your property.

@CandyLeBonBon

I have to pay a mortgage, and therefore need a regular, reliable job. I don't have the luxury of not working when the weather is bad or in winter. I have to pay that mortgage. I also had to get the mortgage in the first place, which was only possible because I had a regular, salaried job.

Me too @GreenlandTheMovie

I'm self employed in a seasonal job. I still pay my mortgage every month because I understand about cash flow and recognise what I need to do to make sure I can support myself and my children. Both options are value. One is not better than the other. Why the superior attitude?

I'm sorry if it comes across as a superior attitude, I've simply come across too many freelancers who have fantasy-based notions about what they can charge and what people are prepared to pay. I do live in a cheap area (like the OP, its the north east) and there does seem to be a plethora of wannabee freelancers here charging silly prices. Most of them aren't very good. It really does get quite annoying, so many of them won't travel any distance for work and prefer to sit at home. Its also quite sad.

Theres actually a point where the police become interested in over-charging, where they start charging pensioners silly money for doing unskilled work. This is also a big area for charges being brought for that type of activity, so I do sympathise with the OP because I know whats it can be like here.

(and of course there are plenty of properly skilled trades who work hard for reasonable rates).

[quote LaBellySausage]@Flibbitygibbit £30/hour for how many hours?[/quote]
Mine takes up to an hour I guess . I’d not be without them now as I’m not at all keen . I’d be gutted if she stopped !

Hah! Me too @JackieWeaverIsTheAuthority**

you live and learn!

NeverDropYourMoonCup No it isn't. At £22.50 an hour for ten hours plus a fiver travel, it's no more than £13,000. Taking the travel out of that would mean they would earn a maximum of £11,700 (less if you didn't pay them for 52 weeks a year). Add into that that they wouldn't be able to get another job for at least half the day, depending upon the hours you wanted them to do, and it really wasn't the highly paid professional rate you are claiming them to be demanding.

I didnt say it was a professional job. I said it was something you could learn to do in one or two days. It was unskilled manual labour (not a trade). And no, I don't pay someone's travel to work costs when they live only 3 miles away. Thats just ludicrous! That actually made it £25.00 per hour! And that £5 was probably tax deductible for them too!

There comes a point when people don't want to work enough to do a job and are just playing silly buggers.

It does make you appreciate people who work in NMW jobs or in shops, etc where they are not earning that much more and working part time and not getting their petrol paid either. Thank goodness for them, otherwise society would grind to a halt.

What really matters is the end result, not how many hours the person spent on it. Work out how much you would like to pay for the job and find out how much these gardeners would charge for the job. I suspect the one who wanted to quote for the project rather than give an hourly rate is actually a more solid option because he values the end result! Being paid by the hour for a pre-agreed number of hours just means trying to stretch the job to fit the time

I didnt say it was a professional job. I said it was something you could learn to do in one or two days. It was unskilled manual labour (not a trade). And no, I don't pay someone's travel to work costs when they live only 3 miles away. Thats just ludicrous! That actually made it £25.00 per hour! And that £5 was probably tax deductible for them too

So you wanted them to do 2 hours a day, 5 days a week..

What would they be doing for the rest of the week?

We pay £23 per hour for a gardener. I believe that's the going rate

@LaBellySausage

I used to manage myself but I'm newly pregnant, have a 11 month old, and am working 30hrs/week. Last pregnancy I had terrible SPD and needed crutches so I think by the Summer the weeds will be more than I can manage alone.

We pay between £15 and £20 per hour here. That's for anything I need doing.

Weeding/planting/mowing/pruning

My garden is immaculate when he leaves

I think the gist of this whole thread is that you want to think you are paying well and people are being demanding when really you are paying poorly and don’t want to accept that.

I'm very proud of it. I will still do a huge amount of it myself I just need help with weeds

If you get local teenager on nmw you might find they pull put the wrong "weeds" unless you stand over them
Do you want professional who knows, weed from a nonweed

Or just anyonene you happy to stand over and supervise? In which case you won't save any time

[quote LaBellySausage]@CandyLeBonBon I'm not lazy- it's 4 acres and I made the whole thing myself with a spade and a lot of cuttings and propagation. I'm very proud of it. I will still do a huge amount of it myself I just need help with weeds. I work part time on top of having a baby and I was unwell last pregnancy. I'm not sitting around fanning myself and eating peeled grapes shouting down orders to the labourers from my battlements.

I asked if £26.50 was unreasonable and it would seem 2/3rds of voters think so. Lots also clearly think it is reasonable.[/quote]
Say what now?? 4 acres you say? 😂

I'm calling bullshit on your post and this entire thread. You did the whole lot yourself with a lot of cuttings and propagation?? Absolute bullshit.

If you spent less time telling lies on the internt you'd have loads of time for weeding.

My gardener husband doesn't sit on his arse for three months of the year. He isn't a gardener by choice per se, he had a huge break down and changed the way he worked and retrained. He started out at £15 an hour but with all the over heads as many pps have pointed out further up this thread it barely came to minimum wage. He now charges £20 ph flat rate for all jobs. He is extremely reliable and very hard working. He is also a cleaner part time for £10 but that is paye so no need to worry about pension etc for that one. But to say that people are self employed simply by choice or because they can afford not to work is simply not true. This thread has really highlighted to me why some of his clients are so entitled and rude to him and treat him like the hired help. He is not, he is a tradesman.
I am also self employed as I am disabled and my work I can do from home and uses a skill I have - in a music teacher. I have a flat rate of £25 ph whether you are learning old macdonald or rachmanoniff. An hourly rate is there for a reason and is no one else's choice but the person setting it. I have two degrees by the way. You can't compare paye rates with how much you pay a tradesman because what you pay them IS NOT their take home pay.

[quote LaBellySausage]@CandyLeBonBon I'm not lazy- it's 4 acres and I made the whole thing myself with a spade and a lot of cuttings and propagation. I'm very proud of it. I will still do a huge amount of it myself I just need help with weeds. I work part time on top of having a baby and I was unwell last pregnancy. I'm not sitting around fanning myself and eating peeled grapes shouting down orders to the labourers from my battlements.

I asked if £26.50 was unreasonable and it would seem 2/3rds of voters think so. Lots also clearly think it is reasonable.[/quote]
😂 4 acres? Ok then. So not really 'a bit of weeding' then!!!

I know of a 'plantswoman' who charges £30 per hour but she does have RHS horticultural qualifications. Yes she will weed, give advice, source plants, prune roses/wisterias and often fixing up problems left by garden designers.

Having built up a reputation she is now very picky about new jobs that she takes on

We advertised locally for an enthusiastic amateur gardener and found a lady who had downsized and had a pocket handkerchief sized garden - she was looking for another garden to work in and enjoy, and asked for half the minimum wage because she would enjoy working in our garden! That's what I call lucky!