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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to expect a large shopping centre to have effective fire evacuation procedures?

33 replies

llareggub · 03/11/2007 19:26

I am still angry about this. We visited the Touchwood Centre in Solihull today. I was with my husband and our one year old son, plus buggy.

We were shopping upstairs in Gap when the fire alarm went off. Of course we ignored it at first because the staff carried on serving customers. We asked one of the assistants if she knew whether it was a test, a drill or a real live fire and she stared blankly at it. Outside everyone else was making their way to the escalator so we decided to leave the shop into the main shopping mall.

It was heaving and there was no way of getting near the escalator. There were no staff or fire marshalls to be seen and the people with buggys ended up standing rather helplessly to one side with the people in wheelchairs.

It was chaos. The place was so busy and we had no way of getting to the escalator. Even if we had abandoned the buggy I didn't feel safe carrying my baby through the chaos.

An assistant from one of the stores called us over to a fire exit and told us we it was the escape route of people in wheelchairs. As we entered the corridor, another assistant told us not to go there, but didn't offer an alternative.

We headed down the corridor. Some of us had buggys, others had wheelchairs and there was a man on crutches. We followed escape route signs down a long corridor where we found only a locked door and a flight of stairs.

By now several of the people with us were crying as they were unable to use the stairs. It was terrifying as the fire alarm was an awful wailing type and we were alone,trapped with no members of staff to call upon.

Luckily my husband found a phone and was able to direct the fire marshalls to us so that we could help the people in wheelchairs.

I went directly to the manager's office to fill in an accident report but was told I could not. Eventually he allowed me to fill in a "Guest Comment" form giving details of what happened.

Frankly I am furious. We would not have been able to all get out had there been a serious fire or whatever. I still feel quite shaken, perhaps because I really felt vulnerable having my son with me.

They did listen to what we had to say but I did feel that what happened was so serious I ought to contact some sort of enforcement agency. It was a real cock up and I felt a bit fobbed off.

This is a long one. AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
llareggub · 03/11/2007 19:38

Maybe I am being so unreasonable it isn't worth commenting...

OP posts:
RustyBear · 03/11/2007 19:48

From their website (Access and Mobility page) "We like to make access to Touchwood as effortless as possible. "
But getting out you're on your own...

Contact page I'd email them, just so you have a record of what you said to them.

GunpowderDragonsAndSoup · 03/11/2007 19:51

Local paper.

Reamhar · 03/11/2007 19:55

Local fire brigade!!!

GunpowderTreasonAndSquonk · 03/11/2007 19:56

YANBU at all.

RustyBear · 03/11/2007 19:56

You could also post a comment on here

Original poster
llareggub · 03/11/2007 19:58

Yes, I think I will contact the local Fire and Rescue.

They kept telling me they just don't have the staff to help get people out. So, I think I'll be shopping elsewhere in future.

OP posts:
professorplum · 03/11/2007 19:59

think it might be local authority who are supposed to do evacuation procedures for shopping centres. If you complain to them they can't ignore you.

ArmadilloDaMan · 03/11/2007 20:01

I think the local council would be responsible for checking on health and safety so it might be worth contacting them.

Original poster
llareggub · 03/11/2007 20:06

Thanks RustyBear, have now posted on Solihull Online.

OP posts:
Original poster
llareggub · 03/11/2007 20:09

Yes, you know I have a vague recollection that Trading Standards are responsible for H&S enforcement. Will ask there too.

I do feel I ought to take this further. It was heaving there, it could have been very serious indeed.

OP posts:
lemonaidtreasonandplot · 03/11/2007 20:24

You can call the Health & Safety Executive InfoLine on 0845 345 0055 and ask them how to take it further.

MaureenMLove · 03/11/2007 20:26

How horrid for you! I would most definately report this to anyone and everyone who would listen.

Original poster
llareggub · 03/11/2007 20:41

Thanks MaureenMLove. My plan is to contact the HSE as suggested by lemonaidtreasonandplot on Monday. I've also posted a comment on Solihull online and will be writing to the manager of the Touchwood Centre.

I'm pretty sure they failed in their obligations under the DDA as well as the health and safety stuff. I'm not after compensation, it isn't about that.

OP posts:
MaureenMLove · 03/11/2007 20:53

Its something that really needs to be sorted. In this day and age especially. Everyone knows how vunerable public places are these days. I would be furious. When I opened the thread, I was fearing it would be Lakeside or Bluewater! Whenever I go to these big shopping centres, I always make a note of how to get out in an emergency.

tillykins · 03/11/2007 20:56

That is a disgrace, it would have been absolutely castastrophic if it had been a real fire
Touchwood indeed....

Original poster
llareggub · 06/11/2007 22:34

Just to update, I had to ring my local Trading Standards, then Solihull Trading Standards, then the HSE, then another HSE number before finally being advised to speak to West Midlands Fire Service. WMFS were very helpful and will work with the centre to improve procedures.

OP posts:
edam · 06/11/2007 22:41

Sounds bloody terrifying. And shocking. Completely unacceptable.

Glad you finally got hold of the appropriate authority but blimey, you'd think the first organisation you rang would have known where your complaint should be made...

Btw, if you still have any energy left, you could also complain to the Equalities Commission (the body that replaced the Equal Opps/Race Relations/Disability organisations). I think the shopping centre MUST be breaking the disability laws.

Am not surprised it was the fire service who came up trumps, though, they really are people you can rely upon.

Original poster
llareggub · 06/11/2007 22:45

Yes, edam, completely agree regarding the fire service. I live near the dreadful, tragic warehouse fire in Warwickshire so all the more aware I think.

I have thought about involving the equalities people, but feel very sure that the WMFS will sort this out. Sadly I think the failure boils down to staffing and I will think very carefully about escape routes in shopping malls in the future.

OP posts:
edam · 06/11/2007 22:52

I know evacuation is kind of the fire service's thing but honestly, I've been involved in research into the emergency services and it is my impression that the firefighters are a. practical and b. will do everything they bloody well can. If I was ever in trouble, I'd hope that whoever started dialling on my behalf asked for the brigade first!

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 07/11/2007 11:00

Fire Service came up trumps because it's them who'll be in there getting you out. Since 2005 owners of premises (so in this case could be council or privately owned) are responsible for Fire Safety, but sadly it's not taken seriously enough - til it's too late.

Bouncingturtle · 07/11/2007 11:39

yes, ultimately, it will be up to the fire service to get you out, but the premises should have an robust evacuation plan to at least evacuate the majority of people before a fire gets out of control - after all precious time would be wasted if you have to wait for the fire brigade, as unless they are right on the door step, they will take a few minutes to a) get alerted b) to arrive c) to do an assessment of the situation.
And certainly fire exits should not be locked!! Absolutely outrageous, and I'm sure the WMFS will be giving the H&S manager/Fire Warden at the shopping centre a well deserved bollocking.

islandofsodor · 07/11/2007 11:46

OMG.

There was a change in the law about 12 months ago (it caused me a loty of work and I have paperwork coming out of my ears) and all public places are now required to have a fire risk assesment which includes evacuation procedures taking into account members of the public.

As well as the centre itself, each individual shop should also have a fire safety policy.

Eg. I know that when my husband's classes are running each individual teacher is responsible for taking their class out via a set route. My job is to stand in a certain place to amke sure no-one can get back in, his job is to take the register. If we have parents in then we must make sure that escape routes are more than a certain distance wide, we must take into account the extra time it takes a mum with a baby to get out or someone infirm etc etc etc etc.

islandofsodor · 07/11/2007 11:47

I just re-read your post. There was really a locked fire door at the end of an escape route!!!!!!

I hope they throw the book at them.

Nip · 07/11/2007 11:56

llareggub - i live not a million miles from Touchwood and have often wondered about the fire safety upstairs as there seems little other way down - I think you have done the right thing in contacting WMFS etc.
Perhaps also go to the Solihull Times or News - that will definiately get something done!

Aside from that, where do you live?

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