To be stuck not knowing how to help hoarder MIL

[Ditheringdooley]

Saw another post tonight about hoarding which prompted me to post.

MIL is a hoarder. Piles to the ceiling and needing to shuffle through tiny gaps type hoarder. No heating because no one can get in to fix and all appliances slowly dying and can’t be replaced. No idea how she survives.

We are her support bubble. Just at a loss for how we help her clear so that the flat can be sorted out and made liveable.

I do not get on with her. I have 2 small children who can be looked after by my childcare bubble but not easy as one still bf. But doable to get childcare to drive the hour to her and help her. Husband can’t drive so it needs to be both of us.

She is not really doing it on her own - she is packing up boxes of things to move to our place, not getting rid of anything. Sorting a couple of items in a few weeks - and I’m sure acquiring more even with only the supermarkets open.

Wtf do we do - she can’t stay like that but she won’t clear it and won’t move somewhere else. She is all kinds of crazy and will not accept help from anyone (so suggesting GP, cbt etc is pointless - she thinks everyone else is mad and she is the sane one).

My husband is not that helpful as he gets overwhelmed or will just sit and talk about items and memories. We last tried about 5 years ago and I was helping her clear but threw my back out.

YABU- yes, there are lots of things that you can try

YANBU - you cannot help this person in these circumstances or as they keep evading efforts to help/ I have had a bad experience of helping someone similar.

@SummerWhisper thank you for the

My expertise re Hoarding is watching numerous tv shows on the subject, so not a true professional . I don't think that there is much that you can do to help someone with this mental disorder once it has reached this point. She may grudgingly accept help from a hoarder specialist if her house is in danger of being condemned, but even that probably won't work. Sorry to not have any suggestions.

[quote Ditheringdooley]@MrsTerryPratchett - he definitely has the gene. I am not great with stuff either (growing up poor, with very resourceful parents - keeping stuff that might be useful was a sensible thing to do economically) but not to the same degree as him.

It is so distressing. I don’t like the woman but she is my husband’s only family and the grandmother to my kids (who have a good relationship with her). They can’t ever go to their gran’s for a cup of tea. I am increasingly getting worried about her personal care.

@mrsclutterbuck Place is almost certainly a fire risk/ health risk (had mice at one point) but I’m wary of contacting EH/ social services as this will unleash WW3. In terms of EH, I understand the position to be that they can force work/ changes to be made at the owner’s cost. I think that would be highly traumatic and also end up landing on DH in terms of dealing with that.[/quote]
I have experience with this with my Mil. SS and EH are no help at all and mil lives in a council property. All that was compulsory was a visit from the fire service with extra smoke alarms fitted.
She has support workers from the mental health team who are meant to help her sort the house but in reality they sit and chat with mil who over familiar and sees them as friends she is very difficult and not only will she not part with anything she aquires more and more.
It is really hard. Our children have never visited her and she lives ten mins from us.
Mil was adopted as a baby and knows nothing of her birth family and I wonder if this is the root cause.

@Ditheringdooley. A relative is staying with us during the pandemic, they had a whole apartment full of their own stuff so they've rented a storage unit and everything is in there. They pay a monthly fee it's not too expensive. Could that be an option?

@DulciUke thank you - don’t worry, it is a very difficult situation.

@Foobydoo we have a fair bit of historical trauma we can probably point to, although equally it seems like she was very difficult from a child but who knows. I can imagine the same thing happening with someone sent to assist her (unless a very determined and specialist clearer type person). Thank you for sharing.

I think we will offer assistance in getting rid of things that she wants to clear/ donate but not accept any more boxes of things that she wants to keep.

Absolutely don't accept anything - not a single item - into your home. If there's anything there already, just chuck it - she won't know!
And don't enable her to rent storage facilities - that's just an expensive way of clearing room for more to come in.
How old is she? You need to get her to address this before she does - or your husband will inherit the problem and he doesn't sound capable of just zooming through and binning it all. Don't get distracted by trying to sell stuff or recycle it - you need to get rid without any delaying tactics!

Do have a look for hoarding resources in your area. There are some great teams but coverage varies. There was one in my area (unfortunately not available now) which was staffed by formerly homeless/vulnerable people. It worked because the loved experience helped. And because it was a charity helping the poor unfortunates people would let them in and form a relationship.

Often the fire brigade is a great source of information, plus adult Social Services. It's linked to OCD so meds sometimes help but you'd need to contact the GP and SS and it doesn't sound like she wants that.

Lived experience!

This looked like a useful website with help , advice and lots of contacts

www.helpforhoarders.co.uk/

[quote Ditheringdooley]@DulciUke thank you - don’t worry, it is a very difficult situation.

@Foobydoo we have a fair bit of historical trauma we can probably point to, although equally it seems like she was very difficult from a child but who knows. I can imagine the same thing happening with someone sent to assist her (unless a very determined and specialist clearer type person). Thank you for sharing.

I think we will offer assistance in getting rid of things that she wants to clear/ donate but not accept any more boxes of things that she wants to keep.[/quote]
I’ve been through this too. It was when she couldn’t say which things were more important to her I started to think it was more than mental health. She too was a difficult child and a snarky cow to me. I have since read that hoarders don’t ascribe any value to objects, and it’s all about control. She likes living in a tip where everything is where she says it has to be. There’s nothing you can do, sure enough her thwarting your efforts makes her feel superior to you. I agree with others, don’t let her mark her territory in your house with her stuff.

do not put things into storage that doesn't solve the issue it just moves stuff to make space for more. You need to be ruthless. anything out of date (food/cleaning product/cosmetic stuff) needs binned no arguments. Clothing could be a use it or lose scenario. She may find she doesn't like most of it. Its worth a shot. Perhaps get her to donate some to somewhere that has affected her? She may find it easier to let go that way.

Does she has a few of any one item? kitchen gadgets? choose one sell the other. She makes a little profit and it may help to clear more. One area or room at a time is fine. I would contact environmental as its a serious issue. I've dealt with this with DPs mother and brother. Well I actually refused to go back after many many things they both said and did but that's another story. I've heard all the excuses and to be honest the worst thing is to enable it. They both have really bad health now due to the hoarding. For your DPs sake calling environmental would not be a bad idea if it saves his mother further down the line.

There used to be a very good programme on TV where they worked with people with lots of issues, including hoarders, and addressed some of the psychological/ emotional issues underlying it. It was usually loss of someone close which the person had then replaced with stuff. It wasn't until the psychologist had worked with them that they could actually start to let things go.

Just clearing the stuff doesn't really tackle the root cause. Someone I know just immediately fills the space back up again as soon as friends have cleared it.

I think it might've been the guy who wrote the 'What's wrong with you' book. I'll have a Google. That's a really good book in any case.

I have since read that hoarders don’t ascribe any value to objects, and it’s all about control.

Whoever wrote that is a bit of track. There is often deep emotional moments attached to certain objects or they are there as a replacement to something missing in their lives. Not control. Or at least not control over anyone trying to help.

It was Benjamin Fry who wrote the book and had the TV programme.

khironclinics.com/blog/its-like-living-in-a-storage-facility-symptoms-of-hoarding-and-why-people-do-it/

The fire brigade for a fire risk assessment might be a good idea as they say they dont judge. I've not had personal experience but they did a talk at my hoarder group.

Dont take in any more of her stuff either. If you can take a photo of the room and show her saying "right this is it now, how much of this needs to go by x to get the fridge fixed, she might be shocked with reality of the photo.

I'm not sure if it's a hill I would want to die on if your relationship is strained anyway. But a good technique is having a set target and time. So say one hour to fill a bin, donate and keep box. Say that's the target for the area by the fridge and work fast. Anything she gets stuck on, you just put inna maybe box. Dont let her hold it and reminisce or talk about its history. Re direct back to obvious rubbish and say "do you need this? Can you replace it if you need it? Does it gave a home?" Dont get drawn into sparking joy etc, everything in my house sparks joy as a hoarder. It's got to have emotion removed.

Also lots of " I know this is hard but you want your heating right? We just need enough clear for that"

Maybe it will work and you can clear somewhere to fix the heating. But I wouldnt expect too much.

If you have a read on CBT you could try subtle CBT on her to challenge her beliefs "I will need this one day, I could sell it, it has value, I will use it etc" each belief is probably incorrect and can be challenged. So it's TRUE worth is what? Maybe look on Ebay. How long would it take to sell v worth?

But dont what ever you do try the let's just throw 50% of this crap out approach as she will shut down.

It's nice you want to help. Your coming from a kind place so try to keep focusing back on the idea of a new fridge for her and not coming across as judging her as honestly even your not, it's a good reason to shut down and from experience in the past that is something i have looked for as decluttering was too hard.

I had a professional clearer help a few times. I mostly cleared while she talked to me positively keeping me focused

LilQueenie, I wrote that, maybe my experience was bad. My MIL was a very difficult person, always had to have her way. With the objects nothing made sense, she kept all sorts of rubbish, including the trays meat come on from the supermarket and gave them equal status to valuable things like jewellery, which she should have had a emotional connection too, but she didn’t register any difference. She wasn’t in poverty. There may well be different things motivating different hoarders.

What you have neatly encapsulated @HoarderAMA is the harm reduction approach to hoarding, which is fairly new and probably more useful than a zero approach. And much easier to achieve.

Hoarding needs constant monitoring basically forever and that's rough. Also, be aware that when she dies, your DH is fairly likely to struggle with her things.

Hoarding isnt always about control. Sometimes its trama that makes you shut down. Sometimes its compulsive buying to give you a feel good hit. Sometimes you your so busy holding many serious balls in the air you then cant cope withbdission to get rid of the shoes that have seen better days because your desisions out. It's not all narcissistist. I was mentally and physically abused as a child by my mum.

My hoard has been my wall, my fort, my barrier, Myspace haven, my self harm and my substance abuse all in one perfect hit. It was never ever about hurting anyone else. It's purely to hurt me. People could see a scar on my wrist but this self harm is private. It's so much complex for most hoarders than just being a selfish dick.

Unfortunately like any self harm.people get hurt inadvertently. At least its true for some people. It can be helped and fixed but there no one size fits all easy quick fix

I think her hoarding started when her mother died. She still has boxes of her mother’s things.

I think a lot of it is perception that things are valuable - though when she last took some crystal to the charity shop they put it out for £4. Things don’t have the value you paid for them. And then I think a lot of it is that she used to live in a big house when married but since divorced is now in a little flat and can’t accept it. But even in the big house, whole rooms were lost to it.

5 years ago she was receptive- we had 3 bags, one to give, one to keep, one to throw and kept working that way. She was happy to give stuff away, or give stuff to me (which I took home and binned). But since then there has been a lot of bad blood and I would struggle to be non judgemental. I suppose all of that was pointless anyway as it sounds like it’s worse now. And once the charity shops reopen she will just keep buying.

My DH says he knows that when she died he will just have to get a skip and clearance company. But I’m not sure he really is prepared for that. And I think that her life is being cut short by all of this - all the stuff we have in our homes gives off dust and chemicals and it’s up to the rafters with no ventilation.

It just seems like a tragedy waiting to happen.

Thank you for shared resources and book recommendations - I will look and try to get my DH to read too.

@HoarderAMA thank you for sharing. How did you find your hoarder group, was that through GP etc or some other way?

The picture is a really good idea. So often we tune out our surroundings , or how many people say they wanted to lose weight when they saw a picture.

Just try to do what you can. It's not your burden to fix. I think the longer it goes on for the harder it is to address but you cant do anything until you admit you have a issue. I think it's taken me two years to get down to a reasonably cluttered house where I can just about get away with not being a hoarder ( unless someone looks in my bedroom!).

I would talk to your dh about your worries about clearing it all one day eventually. It might be best if he didnt do it if you think he would keep too much.

My mil is the opposite and has said she would just throw everything out. She is never helping me declutter after that. It's so sad as it's like a ball and chain you save just to be thrown away in the end. It's like a self imposed prison

Completely - on the self imposed prison.

I meant ‘would struggle not to sound judgmental’* above. She thinks I am controlling so it’s difficult to get the right tone.

I cannot imagine how difficult it has been for her in lockdown. We did rent somewhere for her in the initial lockdown so that she could be close and we’d be able to bring her food etc as she was shielding.

HoarderAMA it sounds like you have achieved a great deal. To move on from long held habits and ways of thinking is incredibly difficult.

Yes it was via my gp. It is amazing group and it is helpful to know I'm not alone. It's also eye opening that we all seem.to have the same thought process but I can be secretly thinking " why dont they just get rid?" So obviously it's quite easy to disassociate as a hoarder from reality.

I had CBT to. Although I wanted to get better I also had big urge to push back dispite me seeking help independently.

It's something you only recover from ( if that's possible, I'm not sure personally) by being very constantly aware and getting rid of things very regulary and checking always more goes out than comes in. Most people can do that automatically but as a recovering/ reformed hoarder it's very conscious. Always. Inner stern words with my compulsive side. Lockdown has helped me massively to see I dont need to shop and I have diverted any compulsive thoughts to filling a online basket then not buying any of it. But finding a healthier alternative only comes once you are forced to look i guess?

Knowing you can bin things and get over it is also helpful but it needs practice. I can give lots away that does have value. But I had to start small. In the group we basically pick apart all these things. there is only the only one group in my county and it's a fair drive to get too but amazing

I'd do one room each weekend. What is the bulk of it? If it's paperwork you can photo that then bin. If it's newspapers they can be recycled. If it's clothes there are clothing recycling bins until charity shops reopen. If it's books, people in London put them out on the pavement & they're gone in under an hour. I think moving it to yours won't help her get used to sorting then letting things go. Would she be up for a car boot sale after lockdown? Also re safety, the US Hoarders show asked a lady to demonstrate how long it took to get to her front door. It took 6minutes. Most fires take hold in under 3mins apparently. That might give her pause. Anything new but surplus can be sold but she needs to realise 2nd hand is usually at least 50% less than she bought it for.