Man "snaps' and kills wife, sentenced to 5 years

[snowballer]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56109330

This is just so depressing. I understand it couldn't be shown to be premeditated and therefore murder, but how can it be such a short sentence in view of the fact she was found with keys in hand trying to escape and it wasn't therefore something that happened in the space of a few seconds? Manslaughter sentences can still be hefty - I just can't understand this. Just another devastating end of a life for a woman at the hands of a man, with another miserably short sentence for the perpetrator. Awful. Just awful.

Its an absolutely shocking outcome but I'm not surprised. 15 years ago my brothers murderer walked free. He claimed mental health card. His actual words were that he wanted to kill my brother. He saw him outside his flat window and looked for his baseball bat but couldn't find it so grabbed a knife instead and stabbed my brother from behind over 16 times. My brother died 2 weeks later a slow painful death in itu. The courts found him not guilty of murder and he walked free. He now lives in Germany and has a wife and child. My brothers children and my parents have suffered all this time. Anyway sorry to digress. The courts need an overhaul. People's lives should be worth so much more. This woman may or may not have been the victim of her husband before this but this level of attack is horrific. The fact he chased after her and caused so much damage. The time that passed between the initial attack and him then pursuing her to end her life surely isn't classed as a moment of madness. He had to literally chase her down the stairs. He had plenty of time to think about what he was doing. My heart aches for what she went through

in reality it takes a very long time to strangle someone to death

@Marinaloves. You need to be more worried. It takes less than 10 seconds to make you lose consciousness and less than 5 minutes to kill you. Even less if the person is a combat veteran/trained fighter or much stronger than you or is using a garrotte or noose of any sort.

You may be confusing the Hollywood portrayal of strangling with reality. Hollywood dramatises it and stretches it out so the victim can flop about, gasp and flail arms, weakly punch the attacker, kick legs, look at attacker a few times, struggle and kick some more, then go limp blah blah all fake.

That’s not how it happens in reality. I know. An ex of mine choked me into unconsciousness and it was as fast as blowing out a candle. I was lucky that when I blacked out, he just let me fall to the floor and let go of my neck. If he hadn’t let go, I wouldn’t be here today.

Not defending DV by any means! But you need to know the truth of how fast it can happen. You cannot count on having any opportunity to fight back.

@PlanDeRaccordement Yes, although, four minutes 50 seconds is a long time to spend tightly squeezing the throat of an unconcious person.
In this particular case anyway it does seem quite protracted - he started attacking her upstairs and he finally killed her by the door. But in general I dont think the length of time it takes to kill someone is a reliable indicator of their state of mind/culpability. Someone could be genuinely in the grip of psychosis for several days and "plan" a murder in that time. Someone could be completely in their right mind, just angry and entitled, and murder someone in seconds. Of course, that is much more likely to happen when the "someone" is a man who is physically a lot stronger than their partner than when it is a woman. Plus, as has been seen countless times, when a man kills a woman it is frequently framed as a crime of passion/just snapping because we expect men to be angry/jealous/and active protagonists.

@PlanDeRaccordement and so sorry you went through that! I had an ex put their hands around my neck but not squeeze. It was clearly meant to show that they could if they wanted to.

[quote Marinaloves]@k1233
Because as with everything in my life, I want the full facts before I make any decisions. I’m pretty sure I know what I’ll think. But even so.
But that’s my personal view.[/quote]
In this particular case I kind of agree. It is entirely possible (as it always is) that in thjis instance he was genuinely suffering from a real loss of mental capacity. I just hate the general narrative of lockdown causing a potential rise in DV/murders because people are "too stressed out" to deal with it. When in reality it is because women are trapped inside with their violent abusers with none of the usual escape routes.

I think 5 minutes is a long time in real play time. If you know what I mean.
I think if I strangled someone I would “snap out of my rage” after a very short time (seconds?) whilst I was gripping their throat so hard I was killing them.
If you count 5 minutes out. It’s a very long time in my opinion.

Go and put your hand round a pillow and squeeze it consistently for 5 mins. It’s shocking that anyone can do that whose just flipped out.
But then we don’t really know why they concluded his mental reasons for doing it

@Marinaloves yes, that is what I was thinking. It is a chillingly long time to be squeezing the throat of someone you claim to care about. Especially since for much of the time they wouldnt even be fighting back. I cant see how someone could be doing that and not intending (at least in that moment) to kill them. (Although as I said before I dont think time is the only factor when determining mental capacity). Its just horrible and feels so cold blooded.

It's a disgusting sentence and the 'justification' was pathetic. An already retired man, with a house and savings worrying about money? And this was accepted? Bollocks.

@namitynamechange
Yes exactly if you’re in the grip of a psychotic episode I would imagine it’s totally different and I’m thinking as a sane person. So I think they must have a genuine reason for their conclusion with this case - or their all just misogynistic... who knows.
Sadly it’ll probably be the latter

Why is it always the men that snap, and so rarely women, I wonder? And the women that finally do kill the men who have abused them for years then do much longer sentences ?

"I wouldn't hurt a fly". Yeah but he would hurt a woman.

Awful sentence awful, saddening. The daughter sounds like she's under a spell.

"During the trial, the couple's daughter, Emma, said she had told her father she feared he was "spiralling out of control".

She said her father told her he thought he was going to "lose the house and not be able to pay the bills" despite having no mortgage on their house and £148,000 in savings."

So he was delusional at the time?

This disgusted me.

Compare this to the Olga Freeman trial. Three experts agree she was mentally ill after being under immense pressure for a long time whereas at least one expert disagreed Anthony Williams was mentally unwell at all. Why does he get a mere five years for "snapping" when she is detained indefinitely?

Why does he get a mere five years for "snapping" when she is detained indefinitely?

Comparing to Olga Freeman who overdosed her ten year old, and when that failed to kill him, stuffed a sponge down his throat and suffocated him, I’d say she got the lighter sentence than this man who killed his wife via strangulation.

Olga is court order detained in a mental hospital where she will be receiving psychiatric treatment alongside patients who did not harm anyone at all and are likewise also detained indefinitely under mental health act. Depending on her pace of recovery, she could be out in less than a year and with no prison time on her record.

Meanwhile this man who was convicted of the same crime- manslaughter due to diminished responsibility due to psychiatric reasons will be sent to a prison where he will receive no psychiatric care and we all know how much worse prison conditions are compared to a mental hospital. The reason he’s going to prison and not a mental hospital is probably due to the divided opinion on whether he was sane or not at the time he killed his wife.

@namitynamechange
I dont think the length of time it takes to kill someone is a reliable indicator of their state of mind/culpability.

Agree completely.

Also, depending on whether you’ve crushed the thorax sufficiently or broken the hyoid in the first ten seconds,, you would not have to squeeze at all for the remaining time (10mins) before the person died/brain death. You can even kill a person with a single punch to the throat...the damage done in the initial attack is often sufficient without there needing to be constant squeezing.

Not necessary for the graphic details of what Olga Freeman did. It was horrible.

I stand by my point and I'm not going to restate it.

So very sad her life was worth so little.

@TheNestedIf

Not necessary for the graphic details of what Olga Freeman did. It was horrible.

I stand by my point and I'm not going to restate it.

I don’t see why not. You mentioned Olga Freeman and were comparing the two implying she has been subjected to harsher punishment for a lesser crime. In addition, much more graphic details of this murder are repeated ad nauseum on this thread. So why shouldn’t there be one post describing Olga Freeman’s actions which led to her being court ordered to a secure mental hospital for treatment? It is important to compare like with like, is it not?

I have to be honest this is really disturbing. Five years is such a light sentence for such a brutal murder. He had no history of mental illness and it was only five days into lock down. I can understand why the daughter tried to defend and say it was his mental health, who wants to think your father murdered your mother knowing fully what he was doing. Much easier to think he was ill.

Arguably everyone who murders is ill in some way. It doesn’t mean we give them light sentences and pat them on the back, saying there there.

The judge needs to explain themselves and someone needs to review that sentence.

Lockdown may have made domestic violence increase, but that doesn’t mean you start giving the perpetrators lighter sentences. Sentencing is supposed to be a deterrent, not a green light to go for it, as you’ll get a much lighter sentence.

she has been subjected to harsher punishment for a lesser crime

No.

Equally horrific crimes. Not equally mitigating circumstances. Not equal punishments.

Read it.

Such a light sentence

That sounds really scary Plan. I try hope your ex realised what he’d done and didn’t escalate with another victim.

As a child, my brother used to attack me and hold me close to him to hurt and taunt me. He’d then escalate the attack so I’d try and get him to release before getting to this point - he enjoyed suffocating me amongst other things.

To get him to release, I used to try to hit him with the edge of my fingers in a sort of karate motion in the throat where the hyoid bone is located. It was instinctive rather than knowing about the anatomy. I’d just worked out it was a very sensitive area.

My mother just let his abuse happen. She must have heard. But I was jointly blamed or her ‘discipline’ of him ended up in them laughing together so no point calling out. Remembering this, I do wonder if I could have caused serious damage if I’d managed to catch him right. I am not a physically strong person btw.

@Mummyoflittledragon sorry to hear that you went through that. Another example on how violence by men on women is accepted and sometimes even encourage. This is a disease in the very fabric of our society.
Five years is a disgustingly light sentence. I hope he burns in hell.

If he "snapped" at work and murdered his straight, white male boss would be have got 5 years?