2nd try. If you were a disadvantaged child, what helped or prevented you becoming an advantaged adult?

[Rowenasemolina]

I dont know if it was my op or the responses that lead to my thread being taken down but I’m trying again and I hope this question is within the rules

To answer some of the questions I did t get a chance to answer. I raised my children as a single mother, No child support or other family support. I have taught many school girl mums. There is a lot of help available for pregnant teens, and young mums, in education. ( both school and university). I had student loans. My generation did. Yes, these are answers to the questions I didn’t have time to answer. I hope answering these questions doesn’t break rules!

Yes, i agree, coping with difficulties yourself can make you harsher on others with similar difficulties, because the alternative means putting yourself. However, I don’t think this is entirely a bad thing. Also. The word destitute has a specific meaning , and I was using it appropriately. As the word beggar.

I was an advantaged child.

I had parents who could give time / money to my education. I had space to work and the resources necessary. Who gave me experiences which broadened my outlook. Who considered education to be a worthwhile activity. Who could fund me through university. My route was easy. It was expected I would go to university and get a good job.

It doesn't take a great leap of mind to imagine that without those things success would have been a lot harder to come by, and it is not surprising that a high % of people in that situation fail to thrive educationally.

This is only a short break. I’ll come back later. But I hope my thread is acceptable to the moderators now. I was very interested in some of the responses in the last thread. I hope those posters come back and say more

There was nothing wrong with your last post. No reason to be taken down.

What helped me? A strict school with harsh punishments for any misdemeanours. Strict uniform policy, strict homework policy. So basically education. I didn't have a desk to do my homework at, I sat on my bed with my books in my lap. Or went to the local library where it was quiet because at home I shared a bedroom.

Also basic expectations of success and achievement from school and knowing I wanted more than I had. I think when you experience the shame burned into you for not having the right clothes or the means to shop every Saturday with your pocket money it is a motivator. I worked from I believe 13 "under the table" money then went onto the books properly at 14 or 15. Earning money and being able to save up and buy stuff was a great motivator.

I would love to be able to say a teacher who inspired me but to be honest I never had that. We were pushed though in class, from GCSEs to A levels and then onto university.

The deletion message stated that the thread hadn’t been in the spirit of the site.

Have to say, I agree, it’s not in the spirit.

I’m still curious as to how you had a “huge” student debt that took “years to pay off”, despite the fact that you are near retirement age.

Having been fairly privileged in all aspects of my life i am only too aware of the fact that at every step things have been made a bit (or a lot) easier than they were for others. I had well educated parents who could help and support me with schoolwork, I never had to worry about funding my chosen university subject, I was raised with the expectation that I would go on to do a degree and start a professional or academic career, I was given funds to do an additional MBA when that made sense career-wise, through work I then met DH who also has a well paying, secure career, I was able to fund childcare while continuing to build my career, and so on. I am reasonably intelligent and have a relatively, good work ethic, but without all the advantages I had I doubt I'd be in the same place now.

DH comes from a more working class background, although by no means deprived. Some of his success is clearly down to the fact that he is very smart, but he also beneftted from parents who encouraged education and growing up when university fees were less of a consideration.

Also, your last thread wasn’t worded as “what helped you”, it was “there’s no reason why a disadvantaged child can’t escape poverty”.

A very different subtext, surely.

Having one person in your life that actually cares for you.
That one person believes that you are worth their time and effort and makes you think the same, pushes you to strive for better and keeps you on the straight and narrow.

There are levels of disadvantage. I grew up poorish but my parents managed to buy a house with some inheritance. There was no extra money and dad worked all hours labouring. There was no electronics or fancy things. Clothes were from second hand shop. Mum shopped in 4 different places to get best deals. Heating was for a cold evening only. BUT it was normal where I was from. Ex pit town where nearly everyone struggled to make ends meet. It was normal in our town. I was washed and clean and loved. We were considered posh as we had an old banger as dad needed it for all his tools. A real treat was fish and chips on birthdays etc.

Btw my parents were super apprehensive about uni and the debt and didnt really want me to go so we compromised on me staying at home and going to a local uni.

My hard working migrant parents, took no shit, never sided with school, made me do my homework, got punishment at home if I’m trouble at school, made me redo tests I did badly at, called school to see how I was getting on embarrassingly often, attended all parents eve etc

I think , especially in a small community, societal expectations are a problem. At primary school I was never allowed to out perform those from wealthier backgrounds and I was acutely aware of it. Not having the right things, should it have been the pencil case, clothes, shoes was an issue. Living very rurally, libraries etc wouldn't have been of any use to us. I think a mentor, within or outside the s hook would have made a huge difference.

I was a disadvantaged child - I think what prevented me from being an advantaged adult was the fact that I was raised by a neglectful father and then due to childhood trauma I acted like a complete twat - so teachers weren’t concerned when I stopped going to school or never felt compelled to help me (it was never “poor qalb” rather “what a dickhead, thank god I don’t have to put up with her anymore”) It lead to feelings of worthlessness which then continued into early adult life, and the actions of teachers were then repeated by support workers in early adulthood (I wasn’t very likeable due to poor mental health, hard to help someone you don’t like!)

BUT I’ve always known I was a good person deep down and that I have never done anything awful or evil, etc - I just acted like a idiotic twat. I have learnt a lot of lessons the incredibly hard way. I’ve also somehow ended up with a friendship group of very highly educated, strong women who basically dragged me up off the floor countless times and for some strange reason, never gave up on me (even during destructive manic episodes). I truly owe my life to them.

I’m stronger than ever, stable and I’m working hard to become an advantaged woman who will never take any shit from anyone ever again (especially professionals in a position of trust).

Writing this post was quite therapeutic I am proud of myself for how far I have come.

Depends really what you mean by disadvantaged. My family are Irish Travellers, I lived with them until I was 11. We'd moved around a lot so I'd attended probably half the amount of school I should have and, had I stayed with them, there were no plans for me to attend secondary. Very insular community and quite a chaotic one, with lots of substance abuse problems etc.
I was definitely disadvantaged there and there was every possibility I'd have grown up similar to my parents (as my siblings who stayed with them mostly have).

When I went to live with settled family and attended secondary school, my prospects were unimaginably different. Socioeconomically, we were still pretty low down. The house was still overcrowded with cousins. We were in a pretty shit area. They weren't even very academically pushy but were very much of the view that, if I wanted to aim high, they should help me do that. What they could actually do with regard to helping with school, for example, was quite limited but they tried and, right from when I went to live with them, they were endlessly loving, unquestioningly accepting of me as one of their own. I will never quite be able to put to words how grateful I am for that.
So, by many standards, we were still disadvantaged. We were poor, we were rough and, compared to many, we were. But my chances were good there.

@Mypathtriedtokillme

Having one person in your life that actually cares for you. That one person believes that you are worth their time and effort and makes you think the same, pushes you to strive for better and keeps you on the straight and narrow.

Totally agree with this.

Child of a refugee here; grew up in a deprived area with a single (but brilliant) Mum. I went to a comprehensive school and did really well. Being at the top of a fairly average pile, I got a lot more attention from teachers. I never once felt 'under-privileged', or that anything was beyond me.

As well as inheriting a great attitude from my Mum, church exposed me to a broader social circle. I was as much part of the church family as those who had wealthy parents and attended private schools. They are still my best friends, even though we have mostly moved away. I have achieved as much as any one of my peers.

My brother, who attended the same school, worked incredibly hard to achieve his goals. He is now in his dream job, where most of his colleauges have been to Eaton etc.

Conversely, many girls in my class got pregnant during their teens and left education before reaching their full potential. A boy in my class ended up in jail for armed robbery. Same school, same community, same opportunities. I think the difference was not opportunity, but aspiration.

I think that people need to get out of the mindset that any disadvantaged child can become an "advantaged" adult. It can happen but is very rare and usually requires a fluke event like a particularly driven and gifted child or unexpected large amount of money.

It usually takes more than one generation to get a family out of poverty. If a child is born in a highly disadvantaged background, the best they can hope for is to improve their situation slightly for their own kids. If these caretaker generations all play their part, in three or four generations they will be out of poverty. Of course there is a real danger that one of the links in the chain will break, they do not do their best for their children and grandchildren, and the clock is reset.

For example:
Generation 1 - child raised in abject poverty, parents unemployable, no money. Poor education but if they work very hard they may be able to get a low-skilled job like cleaning or supermarket work so...
Generation 2 children are raised in a slightly better environment. They are not so hungry so can focus on their schoolwork and grow up to get a better job, admin or something.
Generation 3 have better opportunities to learn. They might go to university, they certainly have the books and equipment they need so might be able to get a professional qualification and so...
Generation 4 is raised in an advantaged environment. Their parents are educated and know from experience how to raise their kids to better themselves.

It requires a different mindset to the "me, me, me, now, now, now" one that is prevalent. Multiple generations of a family need to be willing to work towards a better future down the line, knowing that they themselves may never live to see it.

If it was easy - or even realistic - to get out of poverty in one generation, everyone would be doing it. Both as individuals and as a society we need to develop a more long term focus - how can we eradicate child poverty by the end of the century for example. Unfortunately the political system requires instant gratification and long term goals are not accepted by the public.

@Mypathtriedtokillme

Having one person in your life that actually cares for you. That one person believes that you are worth their time and effort and makes you think the same, pushes you to strive for better and keeps you on the straight and narrow.

Yes, 100% this.

Low educational expectations from parents, school and in wider community. Low value put on education in the culture I grew up in (working class, valleys, no one in my family having stayed in school past 15 before me).

Working class values - reading/studying considered 'lazy' or self indulgent. Family/community is all, so encouraged to settle down young and not move away. To want anything 'more'/else was taken as an insult to family members and peers who had lived this way.

Wanting to push or improve yourself seen as being 'stuck up', thinking you are better than everyone.

Having to work a minimum wage job during GCSE's and A levels. Left less time for studying / personal projects / to build other skills. Slept through most of my A level biology lessons as I was working in a pub until late at night and the lessons were early.

Not knowing anyone with a professional job. Not being exposed to what it takes to get one or what life looks like for professional working women.

Not knowing anyone who had gone to university. No idea about the application process. Didn't know what a 'russel group uni' was. Didn't know basic things such as how long a degree took or what it involved. Didm't know that degrees came in different classifications (until after I applied to uni actually), not knowing that you were supposed to wear a shirt/blouse and black skirt to graduation etc (until I arrived at my graduation).

Geography/lack of exposure to other cultures.

My mum worked her bollocks off to keep us in school and out of trouble. She made us aim high and to want more. She believed we could be anything. She was a single mum to three kids from two different dads, neither paid maintenance, one had nothing to do with his kids, the other made her life hell. My dads family thought she was beneath them and that they were better than me. All her kids have degrees and stable careers, cant say the same for my cousins.

In short, I had a damn good mum.

I was disadvantaged as my parents had low income. They massively encouraged me to do better than they did, and they budgeted and sacrificed to give me more opportunities than they had. They also planned ahead big time and saved for our university education from the age of 4 (not UK. No student loans). They took an active interest in my education at all stages. They told me I could do anything, and then went into debt to help me buy books for uni, or help my sister with her rent while on placement. I am a teacher with a masters degree. My sister is an oncology nurse.

Being academically able and liking school work. Being not very social as a young teenager so fewer distractions in that direction. Wanting to please - unfortunately some of my working hard came from never feeling 'good enough' which is not a good thing. Parents who were happy for me to go to university - some of my friends parents discouraged it particularly with girls. Full grant and no tuition fees (late 80s). Wanting to move away from home and saw going to university as an escape. I was lacking in confidence so my sibling who is naturally far more confident became a higher flier post university.

DH’s was leaving for University and never going back home to live and now limited contact with family. Stark contrast between him and relatives and friends who never left small deprived northern town.
DH’s second was computer gaming - basically spent teens until left in his room which kept him insulated from a lot of family madness plus not out excessively drinking/getting police record.

I said it on the last thread so I'll say it again here...

No-one who has worked in education in the UK in the last 20 years, with the chronic underfunding of schools and the decimation of support services such as SureStart, HomeLink and the links (plus the underfunding of social services) can truly believe that every child has opportunities thrown at them.

It's simply not true.

If you genuinely believe that there is "no excuse" as to why every disadvantaged child in the UK cannot escape poverty and become a success then you haven't spent anytime working with, or just being around, the circumstances that they are being brought up in.