Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how in earth this man got ‘not guilty’ (TW , wife murder)

25 replies

Thisisworsethananticpated · 15/02/2021 14:54

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56071168

Most of us have been stressed and worried about Covid
Yet we manage to restrain ourselves from murdering people

What drove a not guilty , what does it take to make someone guilty of murder ? I’m
Confused

OP posts:
Triphazards · 15/02/2021 14:57

Hope he gets life anyway.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 15/02/2021 14:59

No one will be able to fully tell you unless they saw evidence and documents goven to the court, but it says in there he is guilty of manslaughter by diminished responsibility.

Not every killing is a murder even if it's male to female.

DuchessHastings · 15/02/2021 15:00

it's unbelievable he actually started the attack in the bedroom and she was found by the front door with keys in her hand.
how can that be attributed to a momentary lapse if he's followed her downstairs?

minou123 · 15/02/2021 15:00

He has been found not guilty of murder, but admitted manslaughter.

I think it boils down to premeditatation.
He admits to snapping and killing her. Whereas I think murder conviction needs evidence of pre-planning.

I'm not a lawyer, so hopefully someone with legal expertise will be along soon to explain.

I'm not excusing him, BTW. Just trying to look at it from a legal perspective.

Mollyboom · 15/02/2021 15:02

Sometimes it is difficult to comment on court cases without being in possession of all the facts or having sat through the evidence so I am always hesitant to comment but this verdict has truly shocked me. He admits strangling her, and accepted manslaughter but denied the necessary intent for murder- yet he strangled her. This wasn't a push down the stairs or a single blow that went wrong ( not that they are in any way justified) but strangulation which requires a lot of effort and the effects are clear to the perpetrator- you are literally squeezing the life out of someone. He then claimed the stress of lockdown drove him to it and he was worried about losing their house-yet the facts further reveal there was no mortgage on the house and they had a significant amount in savings. I'm truly appalled by this verdct.

GreenlandTheMovie · 15/02/2021 15:03

Too difficult to prove the intent required by the charge of murder and easier to prove manslaughter and get a conviction.

Most of these types of killing are male killing female, so it seems that no-one in our justice system is bothered enough to specifically tackle the problem.

Ohwhatbliss · 15/02/2021 15:03

Put very simply Murder needs the intention to kill. In this case I imagine that he was found not guilty as the Prosecution couldn't prove he intended to kill. The jury must have accepted the expert medical evidence that he had a temporary loss of control that caused him to kill his wife

poorbuthappy · 15/02/2021 15:04

He began choking her upstairs - she managed to get away and he chased her downstairs to finish her off.

So yeah - 2 goes at the kill doesn't mean murder anymore.

As usual he wouldn't hurt a fly according to their daughter.
No, not a fly - just killed a woman.

SqeakyHindge · 15/02/2021 15:06

@SchrodingersImmigrant

No one will be able to fully tell you unless they saw evidence and documents goven to the court, but it says in there he is guilty of manslaughter by diminished responsibility.

Not every killing is a murder even if it's male to female.

Huh?

3fractures bones in her neck if you want to discount the obvious fact wife is dead because he strangled her.

So what else is killing? Is it A sport

Mollyboom · 15/02/2021 15:07

I really ca't understand how they accepted that temporary loss of control though. Strangulation is not a quick thing, and the fact that he also followed her downstairs would point to a level of foresight on his part sufficient for murder but hey he was a stressed man who had been a' good husband' for years.

OppsUpsSide · 15/02/2021 15:10

This really pisses me off but I am not at all suprised. The anguish over the poor men forced to kill women makes me sick.

nocoolnamesleft · 15/02/2021 15:16

Fractured 3 bones in her neck? So that's going to be, what, the hyoid and 2 vertebrae? That's a fuck load of force. And the attack took place upstairs and downstairs? He meant to kill her.

Blindstupid · 15/02/2021 15:16

Because it want premeditated ... he didn’t wake up that day thinking ‘today I’ll kill my wife’ ... he didn’t go out and buy anything to kill his wife with, he didn’t seek out a knife and lie in wait for her. That’s all - not premeditated.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 15/02/2021 15:33

It’s depressing as hell isn’t it
She tried to escape
He claims stress but their mortgage was fully paid and he was retired

Angry
OP posts:
StrangerHereMyself · 15/02/2021 15:35

This is a British court, not the US.

Murder convictions in Wales do not require premeditation or the intent to kill. An attack on the spur of the moment can absolutely lead to a murder conviction in an English/Welsh court.

In this case his actions on their own would definitely amount to murder but the jury believed that the state of his mind at the time was such that they weren’t willing to hold him filling responsible.

The precise meaning of the partial defence of “diminished responsibility” is really complex and I’m probably not up to date with case law, but in practice it usually means that the jury feel sorry for you and don’t think an automatic life sentence would be fair. I wasn’t on the jury so I don’t know why that was.

ParkheadParadise · 15/02/2021 15:40

The Justice system in this country is a joke.
Scotland is even worse it has Not Proven also as a verdict.

Leaningtoweroflisa · 15/02/2021 15:41

Diminished responsibility manslaughter means he had a mental health issue that impacted on his actions. The report mentions anxiety and depression which sounds fairly low key, but he had some abnormal beliefs mentioned on that news report, plus he’ll have been assessed by at least 2 expert Forensic psychiatrists as part of the trial and sentencing. It’s pretty rare to get it if you don’t have a significant mental health issue at the time of the act.

If it has resolved, he will possibly be imprisoned or he may receive a restricted hospital order, to remain in a secure mental health hospital for treatment and rehabilitation. This may seem like a soft option but the latter is not time limited, release has to go through a Mental Health Tribunal rather than automatic release on licence or Parole Board eligibility.

Taking off my professional hat, such cases do make me uneasy and I would have to work through a lot of difficult responses when assessing such a case, as with any man who has been violent to a woman or child. COVID has had a significant effect on increasing domestic violence and killings of women which should have much greater media reporting and proper strategies in place to reduce this risk but DV and women’s services never get the funding and resources they need.

Very sad case, poor lady and her loved ones must be devastated.

poppyzbrite4 · 15/02/2021 15:45

I read the report and it said that he was suffering from stress and Covid caused an increase in symptoms. Apparently he snapped because his wife told him to get over it. I hope there's an appeal because people don't just snap and run around a house trying to strangle people. If he was that bad, why wasn't he under the care of someone? I can understand if a diagnosed schizophrenic who was under stress and wasn't taking their medication killed someone. His daughter was saying that he was stressed about being unable to pay bills but he had paid off the mortgage and had £140,000 in savings.

StrangerHereMyself · 15/02/2021 15:47

The detail from the daughter sounds quite a lot like undiagnosed dementia to me, but that’s just speculation.

ItsJackieWeaverBitch · 15/02/2021 16:29

The fact that this poor lady was found by the front door, keys in her hand so was probably trying to escape and he didn’t let her makes me think it wasn’t a “loss of control”- or at least it was pure rage as well that made him decide to murder his wife. Women’s lives seem to matter very little especially at the hands of abusive men.

changingmine · 15/02/2021 16:38

Because the only course of action available to a poor, anxious white man is of course violence against his female partner. Confused

passtheorange · 15/02/2021 16:39

He was suffering from quite severe mental health problems by all accounts. If he was mentally unbalanced at the time of the attack I don't see how they could do anything other than what they did, which was to find him guilty of manslaughter by diminished responsibility.

knittingaddict · 15/02/2021 16:43

Misogyny.

persistentwoman · 15/02/2021 16:48

Another woman murdered - another man absolved of responsibility Sad

SheldonesqueIsUnwell · 15/02/2021 16:53

I would love to hear her take on it.

Oh wait...

Poor poor woman. He had two goes at killing her. And the method he used would require a determined and prolonged effort.

But yes. Just a wee lapse.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread