If there was no end in sight for ending lockdown would you protest?

[GreyFrenchique]

Disclaimer: I'm not organising anything of the sort and have no plans to attend one.. I'm a regular poster which MN can verify but I've NC.

My post is prompted by a conversation I had with my friend tonight who is, like many of us, sick and tired of living this way.

If the 'roadmap' set out on Feb 22nd is bleak and offers no encouraging plans to end lockdown, would you attend a protest if there were one? Wearing a mask obviously.

YANBU - yes
YABU - no

In Wales we have now met all the criteria for moving from level 4 (lockdown) to level 3, except hospital pressures. I've worked in the NHS for 20 years and certainly for the last decade we have struggled due to winter pressures every year. Yes this winter is worse, but is it really that much worse that they can keep us locked up in our homes and stop educating children properly. We are still only allowed to exercise from our own front doors FFS. Where I live the case rates is below 100 and has only ever (briefly) for as high as 215/100000.

I am breaking rules daily but I'm sick of the constant need to have a lie at the ready incase I get question by police. It's exhausting.

I hope people do start protesting (my job makes it difficult for me to join), I'd rather live in freedom and democracy with a slightly lower life expectancy than continue like this for any longer.

Personally I'd rather the government not bow to the pressure if the science points to us opening up too soon. I'd rather this be the last lockdown, rather than end up with a series of them. Just look at what happened after Novembers lockdown, we opened too soon and cases rocketed.

Restrictions are crap, I miss being able to hug my family. But I don't want a temporary break before going back into a full lockdown.

It's not about the figures now though. We are shooting down the other side of the second peak and if, as the theory goes, the hospitals are not full of groups 1-9 then I want to see my (vaccinated) mum in March.

People are going to be pretty pissed off if it's announced that at easter we can see family - as long as it's inside a Nandos or Wetherspoons paying tax on a "substantial meal".

Would people accept the government saying it will start reducing lockdown from the 8th March, then having to cancel it and suggest it might be another Month, or is it best to keep quiet untill a definite date is known?

I’d accept a set of fixed criteria for loosening the lockdown, but I also want a long-term perspective on when we would end lockdowns regardless. That’s harder, but has to be thought about.

@StealthPolarBear

So once the vast majority of elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated (+3w) what will we be waiting for?

Quite.

It was all supposed to be about "saving the NHS".
But
a. the NHS hasnt been working properly for non covid patients for nearly 1 year now, and
b. government seem to change goalposts.

But what is really bothering me, is that the government are not saying they are looking into long term or even medium term changes, as to how the NHS is going to cope with covid, going forward. They dont seem to have a plan, or are even thinking about a plan. Why not?? Unlikely that covid is going to just vanish, and surely people know now that vaccines are not going to stop covid in it's tracks entirely.

So what really is the government's medium and longer term plan for all of it?

@AuntieStella

You seriously think that is who anyone who is concerned about the wholesale removal of rights with no end date is?

Those won't be British posters, because the overarching Westminster legislation (which covers all home nations) has a sunset clause, and organisations such as Liberty are OK with it

God, you are so wrong and glibly dismissive, I don't even know where to start. British lawyers such as Lord Sumption and Dominic Grove, not to mention most human rights and constitutional lawyers who publish and post in places you are seemingly unaware of, constantly reiterate how many of the restrictions are in breach of the permitted derogation allowed by Article 15 ECHR. Thar states that human rights should only be suspended where the entire safety of the nation as a whole is under imminent threat.

Sunset clauses simply mean that the legislation will not continue, unless Parliament votes for it to continue. That is a very real possibility. Furthermore, some of the restrictions are passed under public health legislation which has no sunset clause, such as the recent adjustment to sentencing guidejenes allowing "covid rules flouting holiday makers" to be hailed for up to 10 years. And no, it is not satisfactory under any standard interpretation of the rule of law to say "oh well, its OK to have sentences that might never/probably won't be imposed".

The Government has deliberately picked scientists, virologists, physicists, etc who are in line with their views and ignored other leading exerts (Sir Hugh Pennington off the top of my head for one) wo are generally in favour of a more nuanced lock down.

Why on earth would you suggest that none of these people or indeed any of the very many relevantky qualified people in Britain aren't British, simply because they aren't directly favoured by the government? How utterly bizarre.

No. I wouldnt riot. I would just see whoever was willing to see me. They dont have the police capacity to enforce seeing your friends for a coffee in a park or at their house. I don't personally care about shops (except I think they are economically important).

However, I do worry about travel. My parents live abroad. I am starting to worry that they may stop me from going home and seeing them for a very very long time. That is terrifying.

No.
I'm as sick of living like this as anyone else.
I don't always agree with how it's been handled but looking at what's happening here and all over the world I don't think we have many options open to us.
If I could protest against Covid I would but but no amount of protesting to a virus is going to change anything.

To certain degree I think we have to accept no matter how badly we all want normality now or tomorrow at the latest, that's highly unrealistic.

I don't see what protesting will achieve. Covid isn't fucking off just yet no matter how many tantrums we throw.

Yes exactly, when would we end lockdown regardless. If we can't get covid under control then we simply can't live like this for the next five? years. At some point something has to give.

No I wouldn’t protest but I would do what every other person I know is doing which is break lockdown rules.
Ok no one is going to a rave of 300 people or even 30 people. However everyone is seeing more family/ friends than they are strictly allowed.
If everyone is doing this it can’t be policed.

Yes, the government dont seem to have a medium or long term strategy. And I mean a strategy that includes covid.

The rate we are going, there wont be money to pay for a properly functioning NHS anyway.

The government's own strategy, for "protect the NHS", isnt working. It isnt working, and hasnt worked, for non covid patients. And seemingly no government NHS plan which includes covid, going forward either.

What would a protest achieve apart from more cases?

Protesting against nature. Don't be a fool.

Yes I would but if I’ve learnt anything during this lockdown it’s that if the government said it was illegal to look out of the window and you could only take 20 breaths a day a bunch of naive sheep on mumsnet would try and justify these things somehow. People know lockdown is an unsustainable, miserable way of life but would happily keep living like this in their sanitised, unnatural little bubbles in the name of ‘keeping safe’- now that’s scarier than any virus floating about.

@lightand

Yes, the government dont seem to have a medium or long term strategy. And I mean a strategy that includes covid.

The rate we are going, there wont be money to pay for a properly functioning NHS anyway.

The government's own strategy, for "protect the NHS", isnt working. It isnt working, and hasnt worked, for non covid patients. And seemingly no government NHS plan which includes covid, going forward either.

I think they're right not to try to plan too far in to the future (they seem to be going up to about the autumn - until the new variant vaccination boosters) because there are just too many variables

The situation for non-covid patients wouid of course be even worse if healthcare had been overwhelmed. And it's still only just hanging on, with more covid patients in hospital than in the first peak. And so many other countries are in exactly the same state that it's not straightforward to link it to historic funding (look at Germany, for example)

New NHS plan was unveiled on Jan 19 (focus on preventative health) but that got rather flattened by the pandemic. And then there was he major new plan announcement made earlier this week. So I don't think it's right to say there isn't one

I wouldn't attend a protest. But depending on the circumstances I may join the large numbers who are not following the rules.

Or protesting against Lockdown!
Baffled by people who think the protest would be against the virus. No of course not.

The story :
If the virus isn't going anytime soon, then neither are we . End of story.

@TreacleHart

The story : If the virus isn't going anytime soon, then neither are we . End of story.

That might be your stance. It's not mine. We all have choices, even if we think we dont

Yes. I suspect even the "as long as it takes" people will ru out of patience eventually

@AuntieStella And it's still only just hanging on

Personally I think it has failed, because of the non covid patient situation. Not to mention the mental health department situation.

New NHS plan was unveiled on Jan 19 (focus on preventative health) but that got rather flattened by the pandemic. And then there was he major new plan announcement made earlier this week. So I don't think it's right to say there isn't one

Embarassingly[especially since I have started a thread about the NHS!], I have seen neither of these. Thank you. I need to go away and google.

@AuntieStella
Can you send links please? Because all I am reading is about vaccines, so not sure I am reading what you are talking about.

No. How on Earth will protesting stop the viral spread? We should have locked down sooner and harder. The lack of action has been the problem not action!

No, but then I'm not an entitled petulant brat with no resilience so......

I can almost guarantee he won’t be reopening schools on 8th March and if he does it will be a staged return like Wales and Scotland so ks1 children first. Also think most areas will leave lockdown and enter ‘tier 3’ again so basically like lockdown. Fuck knows when life will resemble normality again but I don’t see it being this year.

Yep