School term dates

[KnobJockey]

There's debates going on at the moment about whether to extend/ change term dates this summer to aid learning, which obviously a lot of teachers are upset about.

Not getting into the working side of it for teachers (as in, not getting into whether you should be working for extra for no pay this year, not whether the working hours work for you), does the current school holiday setup work, or should it be looked at?
By that I mean- long summer holidays, 2 weeks at Christian holidays, 1 week at others. I DON'T mean do you think teachers should work more, or any kind of teacher bashing, I just wondered if a lot of people think this opportunity to rework the school year should be grasped.

YABU- the current school holiday system works

YANBU- I think the 15 weeks school holidays should be spread out differently through the year

No vested interest in this currently, I have a 6th form teen who sorts herself and a toddler, I just find this an interesting subject and I think the time is perfect to look at the potential issue.

Yes, I think the school terms should be re-jigged but by comparison, you’ve got it easy.

Secondary schools break up at the end of May here so get 12 weeks summer holidays. Primary at the end of June so about 9 weeks holiday plus the usual Christmas and Easter breaks.

It’s virtually impossible to do a full time job if you don’t have family offering free childcare during the summer weeks or earn a decent amount and can afford to pay a childminder.

Summer camps for primary start about 10am and finish by 2pm and there aren’t many of them available in rural areas. In fact, as my DS isn’t sporty, there are no suitable camps for him to attend so I’ve always dreaded the long summer holidays.

Lockdown feels similar as we never go on holiday anyway, as I can’t afford it. I’d love a job that I could do that was term time only but unless you’re in with the local Priest, you’ve got no chance of getting one in a school, no matter how well qualified you are. It’s all ‘connections and who you know’ around here.

Alternatively you could just drag the system into the real world and give all pupils and teachers 25 days leave plus bank holidays to use at their discretion. Would boost learning time massively!

I grew up in Northern Ireland. We had 8 weeks in the summer and long weekends (2 days) for Halloween and February breaks, St Patrick's day and May bank holidays, 2 weeks for Christmas and Easter. Long summers are brilliant and less time off in the cold dark winters

Hollyhead- - which real world would that be? I would be interested to hear which countries in the real world use the system you are proposing.

Interesting to see it's 50/50 on the voting.
FWIW in normal years, my DC's academic year is so full on, it's usually only by week 5 or so of summer that they have properly decompressed. I wouldn't want to lose that opportunity of an extended break once a year.

@korawick12345 no sorry, I'm being flippant - I'm suggesting mirroring the world of work!

@MechantGourmet

Interesting to see it's 50/50 on the voting. FWIW in normal years, my DC's academic year is so full on, it's usually only by week 5 or so of summer that they have properly decompressed. I wouldn't want to lose that opportunity of an extended break once a year.

And it’s for that reason that things won’t be altered. For everyone that’s happy with the school holidays, they’ll be someone that isn’t.

I think it’ll be just the same in 5/10/20 years!

What we could think about improving is good quality and affordable childcare over the summer and should maybe look at what other countries with 8-12 weeks off school in the summer do. That has nothing to do with schools though. The children don’t need just more school.

[quote Hollyhead]@korawick12345 no sorry, I'm being flippant - I'm suggesting mirroring the world of work![/quote]
I got that! I guess it would be a sweetener if we paid the kids to go to school as well, make it even more work like

I thought it was all to do around harvest? And it's 13 weeks holiday, not 15.
I would do school year starts Jan, ends Dec. Then you get a wind down at Christmas.
Jan - May with 2 weeks off in the middle. Whole of June and first 2 weeks of July off. Mid July - Mid Dec with 2 weeks off in the middle.

The long dimmer holiday is a telic from medieval times when the courts broke g DH or dummer, then grammar schools god yhe sane snc it just carried on. Here is no modern rationale it in this country. Similarly no reason why schools snd universities should begin the academic year in September.
And we could easily stagger the holidays to extend them over s longer period to help tourism.

I always think this map is interesting.

I'm a teacher, if you said two weeks in Oct, two at Christmas, one in Feb (not two as these half terms are often really short for Easter), two at Easter, two weeks at May half term with the extra week before the bank hol for an early Easter, and the week after for a late one, then August as the summer hols, that would do me fine.

Lots of different windows for family holidays then if you think Easter, May, August and October all potentially decent times, should reduce pressure in holiday allowance and make prices fairer.

@PointBreakOrBadBoys2

I always think this map is interesting.

Interesting!

Our summer break isn’t 7 weeks in England though?

True - but I think it does show the differences between countries reasonably well.

As a teacher 4 weeks would not be enough time for all the jobs that need doing to ensure development and planning for the new term.

If it is cut then schools will have to work with old material and the curriculum and methods will not be updated. Jobs on the school will not get done as they are usually completed on the last day it is that tight.

I'm fine for it to change but don't expect me to work those 4 weeks as I usually do for the good of the school. I will need more out of class time for curriculum things and to get the classroom ready before the end of the summer term and then the kids will have to have a TA to teach them during that time.

In indies we have longer school days but shorter terms. Students are worn out by the end.

When I worked in the state system we would be lucky to get a full 6 weeks let alone 7 as show on @PointBreakOrBadBoys2 map

Just moving term dates is not necessarily going to make holidays cheaper - law of supply and demand operates in the market place. If you want a cheap holiday go in the middle of indie school terms or third week of September.

@PointBreakOrBadBoys2

I always think this map is interesting.

And wrong

The agreed cross LA summer break in England is 6 weeks not 7

Having everyone in England have almost the same holidays (and indeed in Scotland but different dates, presumably in Wales too) is the issue I think, not the length of summer holidays v those at other times of year. There is good weather (sort of) and light evenings between the end of May and mid to late September, and were the school holidays to vary, say by county, then there would not be everyone trying to have holidays at the same time. The high demand pushes up prices and causes issues for some employers.

However, no one would want their schools to go back in late July/early August, even if not every year. So as someone else has noted, it's not going to change.

Holiday dates and length of terms tricky. Some academies are trialing different term lengths but the issue then is with siblings in different schools. Some families may have a different family member in a different authority with slightly different dates. And what will suit one family will not suit another.

No quick fix and no definitive right answer.

The problem is, would you make the changes compulsory for all schools or at their discretion? For most (not all) private schools, Christmas and Easter holidays are already quite long and there isn't the same concern about children losing their learning or going hungry during long holidays. For church schools, the current holidays are tied to the Christian calendar so they would probably also choose to keep the current dates unless their school population gave them a good reason to change them.

The risk is that having a long summer break will end up being a status symbol, available only to children who go to oversubscribed schools in nice areas (or private schools).

Hollyhead

How about you send your kids down a mine?

I’ve always thought schools should break up on the last Friday of June and go back second Monday of September, but then again I don’t have childcare costs to worry about.

i don't want the children home when its cold and wet.

I could do a couple of days extra at Christmas at a push as sometimes its a bit of a rush.

Holidays are already expensive in the summer holidays and it’s difficult for parents to get leave if you shorten it then people won’t be able to get a holiday at all. I want the bill of holiday time when kids can enjoy being outside, longer evenings so we can go out in the evenings after work. Not more days trying to fill in winter with nowhere to go and nothing to do.