Is it me? I don't think it's me!

[dontthinkitsme]

NC so this isn't linked to my other posts. Hope this isn't too long!

I've been talking to a guy from OLD for a while. We haven't met yet as the weather has been dreadful. We have a low key, light 'text relationship' (for want of a better term). Sending memes, dry wit, 'banter' (hate that word), it's not exactly deep meaningful conversation. Basically just keeping it light until we see if we like each other in person.

Our sense of humour has been pretty matched so far, no lead balloons, but something happened last night which has actually made me quite angry. Tell me honestly if it's me!

My DM is having some problems with her neighbour. I won't go into details but the neighbour is horrible to DM but seems to like me. After the latest event I've been rage fantasising about passively aggressively calling the neighbour out and making her squirm Something that MN would be proud of, friendly hi how are you conversation, then BAM 'oh, I'm surprised you haven't dropped a note in the door about the damage you did to xyz the other day and tried to cover up' with an innocent smile

This is the sort of thing he and I would laugh about, so I told him. I made it very very clear I wouldn't actually do this. At the end of the day it's not my house and not my business. I did start the message with 'quick! hold me back! stop me doing something stupid!' but all in jest and as I say, reiterated at the end that it was all fantasy.

He told me not to 'cause a scene' When I asked what he meant he said it's not the 'done thing'. Again I asked for clarification in case I jumped to the wrong conclusion, but he went into waffle about how he was brought up to never cause a scene in public and be polite above all else.

I felt this was a dig, like somehow he thought he was better than me? 1) a friendly (if PA) conversation between two neighbours is hardly causing a 'scene'. I'm hardly throwing a tantrum in the middle of a crowded room. 2) I've never caused a 'scene' in my life and never indicated that's the sort of person I am, and 3) IT WAS A FUCKING FANTASY

I told him that there are many ways to be both assertive and polite. It doesn't have to be a drama, a TOWIE style aggressive tantrum, that behaviour is not my style and loses the moral high ground, but that doesn't mean I will accept people acting like shits.

Sadly I've come to the conclusion that was he actually meant was not 'don't cause a scene', it was women 'don't make a fuss'.

I asked him if he meant that I should just let people walk all over me (and my DM in this scenario). Does this apply to every situation without exception? What about if a stranger grabbed my arse? Am I supposed to smile sweetly and even thank him? At that he turned it on me, ignored that example, and shut down the conversation with 'I don't know what's got into you tonight but have a good evening'.

As an aside, he has made some awful 'jokes' about killing cats. Bear traps in his garden for the neighbours cat that shits in his, giving mine to the Chinese takeaway for bringing in a mouse (horribly racist!!), and saying if I ever brought a kitten home (to our imaginary house together) he would wait until I wasn't looking and steal it and drown it.

I'm sure he would say all of these were 'jokes'. But why does my joke mean that my manners, class and the way I was brought up are called into question? He would and has denied that this is about him thinking that women should behave a certain way but essentially he thinks he can do and say what he likes but somehow is entitled to police my (imaginary) behaviour, with subtle put downs that he thinks he's been brought up better than me, is better than me. FWIW I was brought up very well, private school, manners are first and foremost.

I can't even be arsed with the conversation to try and get him to see he was wrong. I doubt he'd listen and tbh we've never even met, I just can't be arsed discussing it and listening him either pretend I misinterpreted or missed a joke, or defend himself.

Am I overreacting? I'm going to have to just ghost him aren't I?

I would have dropped him after the cat comments or the Chinese comment, whichever was first. He's foul.

@Divebar2021

FGS you can’t possibly expect to understand a person from a text message. It’s impossible to tell the tone... from either of you. He doesn’t know you... he doesn’t know you’re not going to cause a scene like a fish wife. You don’t know he is or isn’t joking about cats. You can’t possibly build a relationship by text. At least have a phone conversation then you can hear the tone.

We have spoken on the phone and speak a lot swapping audio messages when we're too busy for a call. My story was via audio and you could absolutely tell I had no intention of acting like a "fishwife". Plus the "I'm absolutely not gonna do this but god I'd like to" should have been pretty clear!

I don't like the sound of him. And I know it's strange times we're in, but it seems weird to be telling him the ins and outs of trivial stuff with your mum's neighbour when you don't even know the guy and never met him. Of course there's going to be misunderstandings and misinterpretations on both sides. I'd save that stuff for someone closer who knows you and gives a shit and even then, it's the kind of thing even my lovely DH would probably switch off from or say the wrong thing because what's there to say with no stake in it really? Probably best saving it for mumsnet, ha ha.

But still, he sounds a bit unpleasant with the 'jokes' so either ditch him now or meet up and then you know what you're really dealing with.

Our sense of humour has been pretty matched so far
Really - you think it is pretty matched and think his comments about cats are jokes. You think they are funny too then?

After the latest event I've been rage fantasising about passively aggressively calling the neighbour out and making her squirm
It takes a certain sort of person to be, or even think about being PA, and it just sounds as if he dislikes people who are PA.

I felt this was a dig, like somehow he thought he was better than me
There isn't anything you've said here that makes it sound like he thinks he is better than you. He is just saying he was brought up to always be polite and is inferring that the PA behaviour you are joking about using is actually impolite. I think he thought you would do it and was telling you it wouldn't be polite to do it.

I told him that there are many ways to be both assertive and polite.
That is true but what had it got to do with anything? You were referring to being PA with your mum's neighbour, not assertive. Why did you then ramble on about Towie-style aggressive tantrums, letting people walking all over you and various other scenarios. You make yourself sound like hard work. No wonder he said he didn't know what had got into you. It sounds like you just went off on a complete tangent.

Oh well, at least you know you aren't compatible with each other.

I can't even be arsed with the conversation to try and get him to see he was wrong. I doubt he'd listen and tbh we've never even met, I just can't be arsed discussing it and listening him either pretend I misinterpreted or missed a joke, or defend himself.
Yet you come on here and write a rambling thread about it. 😂😂
Was he wrong?
Look, he did not question your class (whatever class means). He didn't say he thinks he is better than you. He sees passive-aggressiveness as impolite. That's all. You disagree. That's your right. You probably don't want to meet up with him now. He probably doesn't want to meet up with you.

The end

He sounds like an idiot. I knew a guy like this. Would rant and moan and make dark jokes, but if I had a rant (no matter how fanciful!) he'd take it so seriously and make me out to be bad tempered, ragey, bad mannered. Total arse. I'd tell him exactly what you think and then block him.

I'd drop either of you based on what you each did. Him for obvious reasons, and like him, I'd also not be interested in the type of person who'd make the joke you did. You're just not compatible. Move on. There's loads out there.

I would have stopped chatting at the Chinese comment but I'm Asian like that

Honestly the cat messages would be enough of a turn off for me. Time to say goodfuckity bye in my opinion

So in a nutshell he thinks it’s fine to joke about killing animals but thinks women should shut the fuck up and avoid making a scene.
Don’t contact him again just ghost him.

I don't like the sound of him at all.

@Onlinedilema

So in a nutshell he thinks it’s fine to joke about killing animals but thinks women should shut the fuck up and avoid making a scene. Don’t contact him again just ghost him.

Yes, you've put it better than me.

@unmarkedbythat

For some people, there is no sin greater than Causing A Scene and Drawing Attention To Yourself. If he was brought up with that hammered into him, I doubt he will even begin to understand why what he was saying is so ridiculous.

This! His other comments are concerning enough that I'd fuck him off anyway, but my OH used to die inside at anyone, of any gender, making even the remotest amount of 'fuss'. I've had to desensitise him, he's now okay with us telling a waiter (politely) they'd got our order wrong - before he'd have just eaten it anyway, now he sees the value in being more assertive with stuff.

I 'met' a guy like this earlier this year online. He made jokes about killing my cats, and I let it go. We started playing scrabble online and as a joke said best of 3 whoever loses buys the coffee if we meet.

I won 2/3 and he joked about having an off day, so we moved on to best of 6, which turned into a draw overall.

So we carried on playing and having figured out his playing style, over the course of about 15 games I was winning. You get points and stats so it's easy to see who's on top.

He lost his shit at me, accused me of cheating, said it was unfair, then wondered why I didn't want to go out with him. I like to scratch the surface a little before I meet someone rather than going on a few dates and THEN finding out they are just weird and embarrassing.

@Spamspamspamandspam

I 'met' a guy like this earlier this year online. He made jokes about killing my cats, and I let it go. We started playing scrabble online and as a joke said best of 3 whoever loses buys the coffee if we meet.

I won 2/3 and he joked about having an off day, so we moved on to best of 6, which turned into a draw overall.

So we carried on playing and having figured out his playing style, over the course of about 15 games I was winning. You get points and stats so it's easy to see who's on top.

He lost his shit at me, accused me of cheating, said it was unfair, then wondered why I didn't want to go out with him. I like to scratch the surface a little before I meet someone rather than going on a few dates and THEN finding out they are just weird and embarrassing.

Classy guy!

A sore loser and a tantrum at the thought of putting his hand in his pocket for coffee

I'd have left it at the cat and racist comments too.

I have a cat, my bf doesn't like cats and will make the odd comment about how can I stand her on my lap all the time (which to be fair, she is as soon as I sit down) but he never 'jokes' about killing or torturing her because that would be awful.

The thing re your neighbour, it's hard to comment as it was mostly done via text so tone, etc could have been lost in communication but at the stage you are at, having never met each other, I wouldn't have told someone not to be making a scene.

Always meet as soon as you can. I know not easy right now but even a drizzly walk is better than nothing. You are strangers still.

@Sunshineandflipflops

The thing re your neighbour, it's hard to comment as it was mostly done via text so tone, etc could have been lost in communication but at the stage you are at, having never met each other, I wouldn't have told someone not to be making a scene.

I really should have put in the OP (I did in later posts) that I told the story via audio message, not text, so you could tell I was joking and would never really do that but yes, I think it was the fact we've never met and he's telling me not to make a scene, yet he can be racist and make jokes about animal abuse without reproach

I used to think it was weird how many men see you making a scene as reflecting badly on them, but animal cruelty is fine for them to do.

I realised they are both a compliance test to see how you will react. Relating anecdotes of animal cruelty are a test of your boundaries and a warning he likes to be cruel, so that later on you cant say you weren't warned. Its especially sinister if you have pets.

Telling you not to make a scene is another compliance test - will you do as you are told or will you kick up a fuss?

I'd be less bothered by the neighbour thing than the cats thing. The neighbour thing is 50/50 for me: fundamentally you're right to make a scene if you want to but I can see how that might not sit well with others.

The cats thing is downright horrible and I'd dump for that alone tbh.

The neighbour thing is 50/50 for me: fundamentally you're right to make a scene if you want to but I can see how that might not sit well with others.

There's a recent thread here (amongst loads of similar) saying 'WIBU to tell boss to fuck off?" then 'obviously I'm not going to but...' - this was a similar vein.

I don't want to talk to neighbour at all, it's not my house, or my business, wouldn't help anything and could make relations even worse, and I'd probably shit myself and/or chicken out anyway because I'm so not that person. I made all of this clear, while laughing, over audio

I notice that in your OP you say that your senses of humour have been evenly matched. But then he’s made jokes that clearly you didn’t find funny at all and were actually offensive. I think you waited too long to assert your boundaries.

@fairlygoodmother I said pretty evenly matched. It wasn't perfect and sometimes he went for the shock factor, but the cat stuff and the racism crossed a line. I suppose you're right about boundaries. I didn't let him away with it as such but I was wary about calling him out too directly and him turn it around on me and 'it was only a joke don't overreact' which I've had before from other men OLD, and the more I've got to know him I wouldn't put it past him either

The cat thing would be a 100% deal breaker for me. I cannot bear people who could even joke about being cruel to animals.

Makes you think there's something buried deep in their personality that relishes cruelty. Nasty. Very nasty. Dump him immediately.

Oh and btw I can't abide racist stuff either.

Well, it doesn't sound like your humour is pretty matched and his cat jokes have gone down like a lead balloon. I think it's difficult to get someone's humour sometimes on text or even audio message without actually knowing them.

I can see why you're annoyed about the 'don't make a scene' in terms of it being a chauvinist put down, but he doesn't really know you or how you react in confrontational situations - perhaps he didn't know how much was joke/fantasy? You do sound a bit defensive about your manners (shoe horning in your private school education, like that makes a difference to manners!) so I am wondering whether you take yourself a bit seriously?

You don't have to ghost him (where are your famous manners?), just end things. You're probably not suited.

One rule for him and one rule for you? It's quite hard with texts, but I'd agree it doesn't bode well. I find neighbour disputes often sound very petty to people who haven't met the neighbour or seen the situation, and I'm certainly in the "never invite aggro" camp regardless of the twatty parking. But I still don't like his reaction. He's putting you down.