AIBU to wonder why more people don’t use reusable nappies?

[KatyClaire]

I have a fairly new baby and I’m a little surprised at how few people I’ve encountered are using reusable nappies. I haven’t met anyone using them in my antenatal group / baby classes / local parents group etc. There has been such an explosion in the use of reusable products (sanitary products, straws, cups, make up wipes etc) that I had assumed it would have crossed into nappies as well.

I don’t know whether it’s a perception issue (people thinking they’re messy and hard to clean), the upfront cost, confusing information etc?

Or even traipsing through liquid shit  If a child has such an awful belly that their poo can seep and drip through multiple layers of fabric then I can safely say that the soiled clothes and nappies would be kept well away from the pegs/public areas for anyone to potentially traipse through until the contagious child was collected. Infection control and common sense.

I think single-use nappies in nurseries or childcare settings makes sense, as soiled nappies sitting in wet bags on pegs all day can leak and smell (sure some don’t, but some do!) What if a child has rotavirus or infectious diahorrea and the soiled nappy is dripping through the bag onto the cloakroom floor? It doesn’t take long for other kids (or staff) to step in the drips and spread it.

This is beyond ridiculous, FFS.

We do need to seriously look at which uses more energy/generates more waste- cloth will use more energy to make, there are disposable liners in many, and considerably more water use if you flush the poo then wash (possibly washing twice according to people on this thread), plus energy usage by washing machine &/or tumble dryer. Disposable: energy & resources used to manufacture, plus disposal - which might be incinerator, or landfill. I don't know which is better but doubt it's a straightforward calculation! Going on about disposables not degrading in landfill is irrelevant- modern landfill sites don't want waste to degrade as that releases methane.

Tried them with my first 17 years ago, gave up after one day. They were bulky on her, they were bulky to carry around, they stank. My lifestyle at the time meant I was always on the go. Compare being out all day with your baby and carrying 2-3 spare disposables stuffing in your rucksack along with 2-3 nappy bags and a bag of wipes to 2-3 reusables and all the hassle ensued. I'm all for eco and all that and applaud those who stuck with them but I'd rather see a push to more eco-friendly disposables that are compostable and don't break the bank. Also, none of my kids ever had nappy rash - and I'm sure disposables played a part in that.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/291130/scho0808boir-e-e.pdf

Found an analysis- if you wash at 60 degrees & line dry 3 out of 4 nappy washes then the energy usage of reusables outweighs the benefits. This analysis takes into account the energy releases by disposables as they breakdown over the years. The impact of reusables is reduced by never tumble drying, and using them for another child. How you launder them is critical for their environmental impact.

@RaidersoftheLostAardvark - that also says it’s based on just 4.16 nappies per day, so someone using 8 will be saving far more in washables.
It also assumes nothing else will be washed anyway, my 60 degree nappy wash today had 3 muslin cloths baby had been sick on, a pile of flannels I had used to wipe food off his face. If I had no nappies to wash, I would still have had to put the same wash load on for the sick muslins and flannels, it just would have been emptier.
I also think most people don’t tumble dry 1 in 4 loads. I think I tumble dry maybe 1 in 100.
Most people, will also reuse washables on any additional children. I know I will put ours away incase we have another in future once ds has finished with them if still in good condition.

I think some people are thinking of the huge old terry folding origami type also when they talk about size and space. Ds wears normal clothing from anywhere and his bum fits. They are barely bigger than disposable in changing bag.

@TrashKitten10 My point is that I think it is pretty dangerous to make new mums feel guilty recognising their capacity and ability to cope and daring to use a disposable nappy when it is literally the dusting of snow covering the tip if the iceberg when it comes to plastics waste. Admittedly throughout this thread you have been incredibly polite and gracious in replies but you can see why it gets peoples backs up to be called lazy mums when we are literally all pushed to the very limit this year. The only evidence based literature that has been linked throughout the whole thread suggests that if washing at 60 and occasionally tumble drying the ecological impact of disposable over reusables is dubious but I am more than happy to consider other evidence based literature to the contrary. I would have serious issues with the washing of excrement under 60 degrees from an infection control basis though and hope that people do continue to wash at that temperature.

I wouldn't personally buy used nappies, I understand they are freshly laundered but I wouldn't buy a used towel or underwear for myself so wouldn't put it on my baby but understand that's a personal decision. I remember being quite gutted dispensing of my open system breast pump and car seat that was in a slight bump. Just because theres a market for something doesnt necessarily make it the best thing to do.

@RaidersoftheLostAardvark

We do need to seriously look at which uses more energy/generates more waste- cloth will use more energy to make, there are disposable liners in many, and considerably more water use if you flush the poo then wash (possibly washing twice according to people on this thread), plus energy usage by washing machine &/or tumble dryer. Disposable: energy & resources used to manufacture, plus disposal - which might be incinerator, or landfill. I don't know which is better but doubt it's a straightforward calculation! Going on about disposables not degrading in landfill is irrelevant- modern landfill sites don't want waste to degrade as that releases methane.

Aren't you supposed to put the poo in the loo with dispo too and therefore the same argument goes re flushing?

Re the analysis - I never do just nappy washes, my washing machine is an 8kg one so I wouldn't just do nappies. I never tumble dry (no need) and I've reused them for 4 children. And I've also purchased a few second hand nappies and will donate the good ones (quite a few) that I have after this child potty trains.

Jent - a few posters mentioned laziness but otherwise the aim certainly wasn't to make anyone feel guilty. Surely the more steps we can take towards a more eco friendly lifestyle the better?

@minipie

I have to say, the poster on this thread who really made me stop and think, is the one who used disposables for the first few months and then swapped to cloth once weaned.

For some reason that never occurred to me as an option. I really don’t think I could have handled cloth in the first few months as things were so hellish but I definitely could have after say 5/6 months.

Perhaps that needs to be suggested more by cloth campaigners? Much like mixed feeding could be mentioned more in the conversation about BF.

Don't think you mean me, but this is absolutely what we did with #2. Worked great. Basically, once sleep-deprived poonami hell started to recede and I had a bit more bandwidth and a bit more of a routine, we swapped from 100% disposables to daytime cloth (though I would use a few disposables if we ever went out anywhere significant at the moment!)

I actually complained to the hospital with #1 about them never mentioning combo feeding, and was basically told that if they let on that you could formula feed and breastfeed, no one would ever fully breastfeed, so they had to keep it a secret. ?!??!?!

@Jent13c But the problem is that we as mums create all this mum guilt instead of owning our decisions. Then all the mum guilt and perceived mum shaming just ends up creating weird divides and defensive arguments.

Realistically, cloth nappies are the best choice for the environment. That doesn't mean it's the best choice for everybody. I'd much rather see a happy mum and baby using disposables than a stressed out situation from trying to use cloth. But reusable nappies are still a more eco friendly option. If people don't want to or can't use reusable nappies they just need to say that instead of trying to make the other 'side' out to be unhygienic or disgusting or saying that reusable aren't even environmentally friendly anyway. Just own your decision without trying to justify it by making other people feel shit.

I'm not starting a breast vs bottle debate but breast milk is obviously the best, most suitable milk for babies. I gave up trying to breastfeed after 2 days and created my own mum guilt about it for months. When I should have just owned the decision I made which was the absolute best decision for my mental health. But people feel guilty, or they don't want others to feel guilty, so then they harp on with 'fed is best'. No, I as a formula feeder acknowledge that breast milk is nutritionally perfect. But it wasn't the perfect choice for me and my baby and I own the decision not to breastfeed.

Just as I will continue to make many decisions which are not the 'best' but which work for me and my family. We are all just trying our hardest and goodness, if we spent as much time bigging each other up and feeling good about our parenting choices instead of dragging each other down and inflicting so much mum guilt on ourselves, wouldn't this be an easier ride :)

The ones on the thread I found interesting, were those who talked from their own experiences...those who had tried cloth nappies and liked them, with why.....and those who had tried them and the difficulties they had found which led to them abandoning.

I liked hearing about how people managed laundry and found it...such as how many loads per week and the temperatures they washed at. I was interested to hear lots of people do t use a bucket for nappies at all and most don’t soak them. I didn’t know people aren’t soaking nappies now. And the fact lots of people re-use nappies in a second child is an interesting thing to consider, as were the stories of cloth nappies giving nappy rash in some cases and solving disposable nappy rash in others. And I also found it interesting that quite a lot of people use both types of nappy or used disposables for newborns and moved to cloth nappies at a few months old...it made sense that a hybrid system would work because both disposable and cloth nappies have advantages, so why not have some of the benefits of each. The debate about how much energy washing nappies uses vs the damage done in landfill is also interesting and a key factor. I can see that if people don’t use a tumble drier or only in winter, the environmental gain of cloth nappies grows, and I guess the fewer disposables you use per child, the less landfill there is.

I didn’t find useful the posts criticising users of disposable nappies or caricaturing or criticising cloth nappy users.

But, I guess I’m interested in the nappies and the issues on both sides for both types and not looking to justify or guilt people, when this topic seems to make some people immediately respond very defensively, or very smugly.

TrashKitten, thanks for your recent post. I found that very helpful and I think you're right, that we need to own our decisions, including those that in reality weren't the most environmental, or most healthy or whatever, but which we chose for good reasons which worked for us....owning them and acknowledging the reasons and that they might not have been most environmental or healthy without trying to justify them as being more environmental or healthy than they really are, shows realism, self-awareness and probably some empathy for others and their decision making too. It allows us to recognise people make different decisions for different reasons and that they, like us don't always pick what might be the proven best choice, even when there is one.

I suppose it is really hard when someone is fully committed to the environment or the benefits of breast milk or whatever it is, and know the facts about the huge benefits and bigger picture, to not want to push the message and to struggle to understand why it doesn't matter so much to everyone else. In the end we all make some decisions which might be sacrificial and some which are more selfish. Knowing this is part of self awareness. And I guess we all have different capacities to be sacrificial and push ourselves on some of the harder choices.....I think it's good to push ourselves on some of those things, but also to recognise that not everyone has the same capacity and some don't make the choice to push themselves on much at all. In my view, when things are really important, government needs to take a role in influencing choices, perhaps through legislation or incentivising or dis incentivising certain choices financially. Until they do that, people generally won't and don't push themselves on the things that might be better but a bit hard.

@TrashKitten10 completely agree with @WombatChocolate that your post has been probably the best on this whole debate. Thankfully I am very happy with my decision and have confidence in it that I know there is absolutely no way that I could do it (currently takes me 2 days to dry anything in my tiny damp flat!).

In all honestly it probably riles me up because when I had my first baby I thought I knew everything about breastfeeding and that people who didnt try were lazy and given poor advice. It came from a place of ignorance, I had never at that time experienced a baby who would not latch. Out popped baby number 2 to make me look like a fool!

I completely respect mums who choose cloth nappies, I think it's pretty cool. I respect mums who cosleep -ive been there...its lovely. I respect mums who sleep train...etc.etc.etc.
I do not think that a mum assessing a parenting choice and making a decision for their family that they simply do not have the capacity to things that way is lazy. Just because someone does things differently to you does not mean they are doing it any worse or better. We are all doing our best for our babies.

Aren't you supposed to put the poo in the loo with dispo too and therefore the same argument goes re flushing?

Whether you are or aren’t, I don’t know one person who has ever done this as that negates a key purpose of them. I’m sure someone will be along to say they did though.

@HoppingPavlova I do if it's a log, squashy ones not so much...

Yeah I think you are supposed to flush poo, but I've never met anyone who does.

I suppose it is really hard when someone is fully committed to the environment or the benefits of breast milk or whatever it is, and know the facts about the huge benefits and bigger picture, to not want to push the message and to struggle to understand why it doesn't matter so much to everyone else.

I think the problem here is when people focus on pushing the message rather than actually HELPING. Becoming a peer breastfeeding supporter or even a qualified lactation consultant or even just offering to go round to your friend's house and hang out with her while she cries and breastfeeds her non-latching newborn are great and ACTUALLY help people to breastfeed.

Being told of the theoretical benefits and how to do it in theory... not so much. I knew everything about breastfeeding IN THEORY and then had two babies who took weeks and weeks to "get it".

I know there must be people who don't know the information about, say, cloth nappies. I am actually going to cheekily share a link to an accessible explainer for beginners, in case anyone has been inspired by this thread: homefaring.wordpress.com/2020/10/08/cloth-nappies-for-total-beginners/ But I really don't think the problem is that the information isn't out there and people just need to have it shouted loudly enough. I think there are practical barriers that exist to all sorts of environmental issues and anyone who wants to help should think about how they personally can break down those barriers (or help people over them), either one-to-one or on a larger scale.

Aren't you supposed to put the poo in the loo with dispo too and therefore the same argument goes re flushing?

Maybe but ive never met anyone who has or does, myself included

People should flush the poo, but most don't. Just wrap it up in the nappy, bag it and bin it.

Well, maybe there’s easy scope for improvement....people using disposables could tip the poo down the loo, rather than sending that to landfill too. Seems like an easy positive step of a small nature.

It would be a small inconvenience you’d hope people might be prepared to consider (no costly upfront purchase or laundering issues) but the reality is that most people won’t be prepared to consider this small change.

It would be a small inconvenience you’d hope people might be prepared to consider (no costly upfront purchase or laundering issues) but the reality is that most people won’t be prepared to consider this small change.

You are correct, no one will consider this. It’s got nothing to do with being an inconvenience (unless our and about and then it would be), and everything to do with the fact the vast majority of people just don’t want to deal with shit, be it their own or anyone else’s in any way they absolutely don’t have to. They will take the shortest, least contact approach possible. That’s human nature.

Should have added, it’s got nothing to do with laziness either. If human/animals excreted perfumed marshmallows or rose petals then you would likely have 99.9% of people making the effort to dispose of it in an environmentally friendly manner. But as human excrement is nothing like those things people don’t want to handle it, don’t want to see it, don’t want to smell it and want to get rid of it in record time. That means a quick wrap and bin.

My kids are adults but I even had one of those cartridge bins next to the change table where you popped the nappy package straight in, twisted the top so it sealed it in a plastic sausage where smell couldn’t escape and when the bin was full of plastic sausages you took it out and emptied it in your outside garbage bin. Minimal mess, no lingering smell.

I haven't read the full thread, but currently my youngest is in cloth nappies during the day but we do use a disposable diaper for the night.
I chose to do this for environmental reasons, but the biggest motivator was reading about the chemicals contained in many disposable nappies (organic disposable nappied are really expensive so I use with parsimony, for the night).

I haven't found them hard to use, but it's a different organization. I air dry them and I would say that's my only pain point as it's a bit of a faff in December/January, which is humid and rainy where I live. Rest of the year is fine.
I tested 2 brands, Bumgenius and Blueberry, and I like them both. I also use the nappy bucket from Totsbots and there are no smells escaping.
Sometimes there are leaks, yes, but I don't mind, as she has a ton of clothes thanks to doting grandparents and firends, so at least she gets to wear all her clothes. Never had to buy special clothes for her to wear cloth nappies.

Unfortunately this thread has just confounded my experience of the reusable nappy “community”. With the exception of a few posters who have given a realistic picture, a big chunk of those posters that choose reusables go one about how they have zero issues and branded those who choose disposables lazy and selfish. This attitude will do absolutely nothing to get people to switch. I went looking for practical advice on using reusables and got the same smug, belligerent attitudes that posters have shown on here. If you really cared about saving the planet you would help others do that same. I have a feeling it’s less about actually saving the planet for some people and more about being able to be smug and superior over others.

I think there are practical barriers that exist to all sorts of environmental issues and anyone who wants to help should think about how they personally can break down those barriers (or help people over them), either one-to-one or on a larger scale.

YY, exactly this!