To think the rise in dog prices is doing more harm than good?

[Godimabitch]

So dogs and puppies have shot up in price, most people on the internet know this, ours was 350 when we got her 6 years ago, you'd be paying 2k now and she's not a rare or particularly popular breed.

At first I thought, well great, people will have to think more before buying one.

But, having less income doesn't make you a worse dog owner. It's essentially priced lower earners out of the market. Yes, you can adopt, but not everyone can, for various reasons.

But, dog theft has shot up in my area, people having their dogs nicked off them while walking, being attacked for their dogs. It's really a serious issue, there's always been theft but not at this level. Surely it's down to 1) they're worth more. 2) people are more eager to buy a cheaper dog because they're so expensive. And 3) people may not be aware of the price of dogs now, if you offered me one of my breed for 400 I'd think, yeah reasonable price, whereas that's like offering a dog for 50 quid back when I last bought one. Which would have triggered alarm bells.

And, there's still loads of puppies being bred, and probably from shittier people and dogs because it's worth so much money, it still costs the same amount to produce a litter, but they're worth more. And they're more likely to go to breeders than families because they produce more money and less families can afford them.

I get this, but with puppy prices the way they are is it a bad thing is potential owners have to save up? That’s what we’re doing. Putting the money insurance, vet bills and food will cost away monthly to cover the initial cost of the puppy

But lower earners who may be perfectly good owners are being completely priced out of the market.

Puppies and dogs bought for £2.5k are still being re-homed. Being able to pay £2.5k for a puppy clearly isn’t indicative of whether someone is a suitable or good owner.

All it’s doing is encouraging theft and encouraging people to breed their pet dogs.

Potentially, there’s a £10k payday - I can see why people are breeding - I’ll be very honest, when I saw the price of an x-poo I was half tempted myself

Is dog theft really more prominent or just more shared on social media?

I see quite a number of posts on Facebook about stolen dogs from local group to.find the dogs were stolen 100 miles away. I don't know anyone in my vicinity who even know sometime themselves whose dog has been stolen, now it before covid.

Being able to pay £2.5k for a puppy clearly isn’t indicative of whether someone is a suitable or good owner
But a dog could cost this annually, do if you don't have it to start with, how are you going to have it for the years to come?

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

I think it's a good thing - higher prices will make people think twice. Paying thousands for a dog sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but if it means that people have to save up for a few years to get a dog then that's a good thing - better someone have to wait a while than get a dog and regret it.

Once lockdowns end prices will probably come down again, and there will be lots of unwanted dogs to be picked up from rescue centres at knockdown prices.

I think the point posters are making is many people aren’t saving up for a puppy. They’re buying a stolen one instead.

Oh and £2k is on the high end. We bought ours for £1k last April. There are some available around that price, but yes, inevitably, demand overtakes supply.

A family I know is adopting a "stray" 6 month old lab from one of the Eastern European countries, donating a couple thousands - justifying that they would rather support a good cause. I am from the same country, but they don't believe me when I say that no, there isn't abundance of purebred lab puppies freezing on the streets there, they are simply sponsoring a puppy farmer there in the best case, or buying a stolen dog in the worst.

@MrsAntiSocial

And sorry I don't buy the well if we sell to a person for less than 3.5k then they will sell the dog on for a profit line of argument. It is the artificially high prices that leads to dogs being seen as an expensive commodity in the first place I disagree. In the first lockdown I definately saw single puppies only 9 or 10 weeks being sold on for thousands.

i think you may be missing my point.

The high price of dogs makes them more attractive to thieves who can sell them on for a high price.

If dogs were a reasonable price then they would be unattractive to either thieves or to resale at a higher price.

There is obviously an issue of supply and demand. The sale of dogs should be more regulated either way. Allowing a dog to be sold over the internet ought to be illegal.

How do you know where the dogs you saw being sold at 9-10 weeks have come from, you don't know if they are resale or not.

@dontdisturbmenow

Being able to pay £2.5k for a puppy clearly isn’t indicative of whether someone is a suitable or good owner But a dog could cost this annually, do if you don't have it to start with, how are you going to have it for the years to come?

Not being able to pay casts sums for a puppy doesn’t mean people can’t afford to keep their dogs properly

My dog was £750 2 years ago. The same breed is now selling for £2-2.5k. I couldn’t afford to pay £2k for her now, but I can certainly afford her really insurance, food, vet fees, flea treatment, training classes, etc.

There’s been a huge increase in prices of horses and ponies over lockdown too - the dodgy dealers are doing a roaring trade.

The high price of dogs makes them more attractive to thieves who can sell them on for a high price
I agree

If dogs were a reasonable price then they would be unattractive to either thieves or to resale at a higher price
Here I totally disagree.
Currently, most dogs are £2,000+ so a dog/puppy for say, £500, I would argue is VERY attractive to someone wanting extra money who knows they can easily sell it for at least £1,500 more than they paid.

There is obviously an issue of supply and demand. The sale of dogs should be more regulated either way. Allowing a dog to be sold over the internet ought to be illegal
Sold over the internet as in client buys and breeder delivers IS (I believe) illegal.
The client has to see the puppy in it’s home environment with its mum.

The internet is merely a means to advertise, not to sell.

How do you know where the dogs you saw being sold at 9-10 weeks have come from, you don't know if they are resale or not
I don’t but some of the reasons were s beyond ridiculous and considering the age aswell, I have to be sceptical.
The most memorable being a GSD puppy bought the day before getting rid because wife is pregnant.

As ridiculous as I thought it was seeing such an increase in prices, I honestly thought it would have been a good thing.

I thought less people would buy, and more people would adopt. I would never pay the prices that dogs are currently being sold for. I know others wouldn't either. I really am shocked that so many have and still are!

The shelters may be emptying right now, but once people start going back to work I bet a lot of them end up there. I can imagine people who are desperate for a dog are buying the cheapest ones they can get (a lot of people, not all), and not taking into account their temperament etc.

It's so sad to think that people are buying in order to sell them on for a profit. I didnt even think of people doing that.

How do you know where the dogs you saw being sold at 9-10 weeks have come from, you don't know if they are resale or not.

Most reputable breeders have waiting lists, I will have waited over 12 months for our puppy and she’s a long standing breeder with numerous bitches. I am dubious of any decent breeder having unsold puppies past 8 weeks. I saw one advertised at 14 weeks old, straight from ‘breeder’. No way would a breeder hold on to a puppy for an extra 6 weeks before selling, it’s detrimental to the puppy. My breeder required a 5 page application form, phoned my vet to check we take care of other pets, wanted photos of our house/garden to check we have an adequate set up and checked our postcode on google maps as I’d stated we were on the doorstep of open countryside (we are). Some people are buying completely over WhatsApp without seeing puppy with Mum. I’ve been receiving pictures of Mum all year and saw all of her last litter. I also know I will be getting lifetime support from the breeder as I’ve been in contact with people who had puppies from her many years ago. That’s why I’m happy to pay £2000. The same breed for non-KC 10 week old pups with pictures of them in a barn are £3500 on pets 4 homes and it’s disgraceful. Parents aren’t KC registered and haven’t been health tested either!

I was going to buy a dog but, in spite of knowing what joy they bring to your life, have reluctantly decided against it. I would be worried about taking a dog out by myself in isolated areas.

How could it ever possibly be ‘a good thing’ for dogs to be so valuable that organised criminal gangs steal them from the people they live with, given fertility drugs so they can have three litters a year, bred to death?

Currently, most dogs are £2,000+ so a dog/puppy for say, £500, I would argue is VERY attractive to someone wanting extra money who knows they can easily sell it for at least £1,500 more than they paid.

Who would pay £2000 for a stolen dog though if breeders are selling them for £500.

They just wouldn't.

The thieves can only sell at inflated prices because the breeders are charging them.

It’s appalling and driven by pure greed. Our golden retriever was £650 6 years ago - a GR puppy is £2.5k+ now. There were 12 in his litter (and 11 in his mum’s subsequent litter) - people are seeing pound signs.

I don’t think it’s possible to breed responsibly at the moment - maybe only with the very heavy vetting of potential owners described upthread. And no advertising - only breeding if you have a waiting list.

Who would pay £2000 for a stolen dog though if breeders are selling them for £500.

I’m getting a Golden retriever in summer for £1800, they’re on for sale with non reputable breeders (not registers/health checked) for £3800 and yet people are buying them. Not sure if they’re stolen but they’re older than 8 weeks usually when advertised.

I think it’s sites like pets 4 homes, I found mine on champ dogs and he doesn’t advertise on Pets4Homes.

Breeders should be regulated, registered, and limited to a set number of litters. It's so unfair on the poor bitches, forced to have multiple litters, often when very young themselves.

The prices of puppies seem appalling!

In terms of the dog theft though, from what I've read in the news it's still incredibly rare. Is there a chance this is a bit of a social / collective panic, in the style of fears of child abductions? People really scared of that too but in actual number a minuscule chance

My GR was 1300 in October
I hope prices calm down due to the attraction for stealing expensive breeds, there does seem to be a lot more education about buying from reputable breeders and what to look out for. I worry about taking my boy out alone sometimes in case of people trying to take him. I love my boy but no way would I have paid £3.5k we’ve spent a fortune on him since getting him he’s quite spoilt but also a lot of work, puppy training classes etc.

I live near one of the largest licenced breeders in the Uk, hundreds and hundreds of breeding bitches. It's a horrendous trade which we shouldn't be fuelling.

Breeders should be regulated, registered, and limited to a set number of litters. It's so unfair on the poor bitches, forced to have multiple litters, often when very young themselves
That’s a bit too simplistic in my opinion.
In reality, it would be an immense undertaking to try and ‘fix’ dog breeding in its current state.

When you say ‘regulated’; how would that work?
Who would enforce it?

When you say ‘registered’, with whom?
The Kennel Club?
Because they truly don’t care for dog welfare.

It wasn’t that long ago they were very happy to register litters that were genetically impossible eg ruby, tri and Blenheim cavs from two Blenheim parents.
So not only were the registered puppies the obvious result of a puppy farm, the documents were false because genetically the parents couldn’t possibly have been the parents.

They have continued to make the breed standards progressively more and more extreme to the detriment of the dogs, only making changes due to public outcry; remember that crippled Crufts GSD?

They won’t tolerate any degree of outcross despite the tiny gene pool of many breeds meaning their inherited health problems can never be fixed within the breed - See LUA dalmations and how aggressively the KC and Breed Club (affiliated with KC) resisted them.

‘Registered’ is by no means indicative of a good breeder, not by a very very long way.

‘Forced to have multiple litters’, now technically the KC will only register four litters.
But how certain unethical breeders get around this is to register the four litters as Kennel Club then cross the mum in between and after with another breed so you have additional litters of cross bred puppies.

It’s a very difficult industry to police.

I’d like to see similar in place to Germany and Scandinavia countries with extensive health testing and breeding to keep working ability intact.

Sadly some of the £2000 + puppy's we see at the practice i work at are clearly not well bred .
The behaviour we are seeing is shameful , some people couldn't give a shit as long as they get a big wad of cash at the end.
Caesarean charges used to be a bit of a deterrent , not so much now when the sale of one pup alone will cover that.
It won't end until enough people refuse to pay these mad prices , same as puppy farms , every single person that buys a pup from a puppy farm / mass breeder is guilty of fuelling the fire .
There is a storm brewing regarding behaviour problems in the months to come.
Its really sad that so many responsible ,potential dog owners with loving homes will be priced out of the market ,and whose only option may be to take on somebodies "mistake" that has numerous issues .

The whole industry needs regulation. Actually as evidenced on here in a couple of threads, some dimwits mentioned breeding their dogs to get a pup to have as a companion for their older dog (the proposed parent) and were called out on a thinly veiled breeding for massive profit. Even now the most regulated site in Ireland which requires chipping, no pup moving hands until 9 weeks old etc etc; has pups on there for 2 grand, no papers, no visibility of parents; beggars belief. More needs to be done. Everybody is trying to breed their bitch now.

Our local police force has just said that the dog theft rumours are essentially scaremongering. They’ve had two reported attempted thefts and one actual case in the last year. Yet our local Facebook groups are awash with men in vans, men staring whilst people are dog walking or coming over to talk to owners etc.

So make sure you report any attempts because it’s not seen as problem if the stats don’t back it up.

Someone near me just had a litter of labradoodles. £1500 each for a litter of 10.
That's an annual salary for some people with zero hours worked or tax paid.
Not a KC registered breed so no paperwork to get in the way of churning out litter after litter ☹️