The Royals

[Indecisive12]

I was bought Finding Freedom for Xmas and have just finished it.

It’s an utterly bizarre read highlighting to me the difference in British and American culture as it is written for the American audience.

Anyway after reading it I just can’t see how sustainable the Royal Family are. The Queen won’t have long left to reign. There’s loads of hate against Camilla in the world,even though I quite like her, so I can’t see Charles as King being a success. Then William and Kate are losing popularity because of the fallout and that’s basically all there is.

I quite liked the royals but I’m feeling a bit meh about them and wonder if they’ve run their course. Their behaviour of fleeing to nicer palaces in lockdowns hasn’t bought them any favours in my book either.

YABU - they will carry on as they have
YANBU - Charles reign will see significant changes and their role diminished further

Absolutely! How has this been brushed under the carpet?!

The royals could have chosen to shine during the pandemic

instead they preferred showing how much contempt they have for the plebs, how little they can be bothered to do, and how pointless they are in 2021. No one needs a patronising zoom call or video once a month.

I think Harry had an idea about his & Meghan's role being roving ambassadors, but William who still comes over as awkward on tours & visits ,felt he'd be outshone by the combination of Harry's easy , relaxed rapport & Meghan's 'starry' image. That led to resentment, compounded by the grey suits who cling to outdated & irrelevant protocol that both Harry & Meghan chafed against. I think Charles isn't very popular and doesn't offer much frankly. . William & Kate seem well meaning but a bit robotic to me. The tourist income generated by our royalty is apparently huge, so maybe they have some use.

I think there will be a deep, extended mourning when the Queen dies, followed by a period of interest and curiosity as to how Charles (and especially Camilla) will handle his/their reign. I think William and Kate will do a lot of the heavy lifting during this time, especially once overseas tours can be resumed.
By the time that peters out, the Cambridge children will most likely be in their teens and the cycle of interest in the new royal generation will start up again. I am American, and still remember People magazine covering William at Eton, heading off to university, on the slopes with Kate, the courtship, the wedding, the babies and so forth.
Finding Freedom was deeply embarrassing and such an obvious and heavy handed effort at reputation repair for Meghan. Her brief stay in the royal family reminded me of someone at a carnival or game show who has 60 seconds to grab as many dollars and prizes as they can. It can't have been an easy adjustment to a completely new life, so hopefully the future holds better things for the two couples' relationships. It would be so sad for Archie to miss out on all his cousins!

Beatrice and Eugenie both have jobs. Paid jobs. And they continue to also do a lot of charity work as well

They spent much of their time while doing these 'jobs' on holiday. The royal machine challenged them on that as the press were commenting on it regularly. The holidays were reined in as a result. They were getting the same reputation as their airmiles father. Eugenie's lavish wedding and massive and unnecessary security for her coach ride around town, put another nail in the every expanding royal hangers on coffin. Galling the public purse was robbed in that way.

William worked as an air ambulance pilot before taking on royal duties full time
He worked less than part time. No reason why he couldn't do full shifts. He gave it up - to do what exactly? He isn't even King in waiting - his dad is still doing that apprenticeship. He is the apprentice to the apprentice!

What a difference to their reputation they could make if they showed they could hold down real jobs of significance that contributed to the country.

I might have some respect for your views StoneofDestiny if they weren’t peppered with things that just aren’t true.
Beatrice and Eugenie both have jobs. Paid jobs. And they continue to also do a lot of charity work as well.

Perhaps dig a little deeper into these paid jobs that ol’ Bea and Eug managed to secure through their enormous talents.

And the jobs that Peter and Zara Philips got. Entirely on their own merits, naturally.

None of these paid jobs require much effort on the part of the individuals doing them, and seem to allow the employees plenty of time off for holidays. Funny, that.

[quote AngelicaElizaAndPeggy]@StoneofDestiny I entirely agree- I hope he makes a go of it.

Tbh I find it really creepy that people are so convinced his marriage will fail and he will have to come back. Why would you wish that on anyone? Let alone anyone with a tiny child?[/quote]
I genuinely hope their marriage thrives and he stays there. They both annoy intensely so I have no wish to see him come trailing back with his tail between his legs and endless pap shots of her woebegone face. Also I do think they really love each other.

I think the RF will endure. It's not even about people loving them - though many more than MN would have us believe do - they are a living part of our cultural landscape and history and I don't think most are ready to let them go just yet.

I wonder whether Bea, Eug, Peter and Zara have completed their personal development plans for 2021. How are they managing their testing workloads? I wonder how their line managers have rated their performance in 2020? Do you think that they have been working late to meet deadlines? So many questions about their high pressure careers! They’re just like us, aren’t they? Er...

In a once in a lifetime pandemic that has taken away so many lives and all of the things we love - we expect and look forward to a great reset.

We see how the pandemic has exacerbated diversity from those with and without - Covid, vaccination, financial reserves, health privilege or vulnerability, remote digital hibernation options or people facing roles etc etc as to survival of the fittest.

Is the inherent system whereby one is born to rule and own with the support of subjects the only system of predetermined hierarchy fit for purpose going forward? Is it a binary choice between legacy status quo and a republic whereby anyone can technically through ability and determination achieve and aspire to the leading role through merit and not inertia?

I'm sitting on the fence on this one as what happened happened eg colonial legacy, treatment of peoples globally as past wrongs are acknowledged and no longer taboo. The current commonwealth will be a barometer as to royal yea or nay! It's evidently not particularly palatable when certain people are above the law and being shielded from fair and equitable justice from seemingly mixing with the wrong crowd and allegedly doing things with minors not considered morally acceptable to parents on MumsNet.

What would be very intriguing if someone eminently more knowledgeable can provide a strategic cost benefit analysis of pros and cons!

This is an interesting thread but I doubt it will last long before it is pulled as antagonists from both extremes play out their unpalatable and insensitive viewpoints.

@Iamthewombat

I might have some respect for your views StoneofDestiny if they weren’t peppered with things that just aren’t true. Beatrice and Eugenie both have jobs. Paid jobs. And they continue to also do a lot of charity work as well.

Perhaps dig a little deeper into these paid jobs that ol’ Bea and Eug managed to secure through their enormous talents.

And the jobs that Peter and Zara Philips got. Entirely on their own merits, naturally.

None of these paid jobs require much effort on the part of the individuals doing them, and seem to allow the employees plenty of time off for holidays. Funny, that.

These are the jobs very rich silly young people get. Parish Hilton doesn't have a real job either.

I imagine the queen would like them to do something worthwhile, but they are private citizens and they can do what they like.

Finding Freedom was deeply embarrassing and such an obvious and heavy handed effort at reputation repair for Meghan. Her brief stay in the royal family reminded me of someone at a carnival or game show who has 60 seconds to grab as many dollars and prizes as they can.

That made me . I think the book was far more about point scoring and addressing all the ways, right down to the very smallest perceived snub, in which she felt she'd been treated badly. The detail was that of someone who is very preoccupied with and spends a lot of time ruminating on conflicts they've been involved in. Actually really unhealthy.

Colonialists and slave traders.

As a PP has said, unpicking the monarchy from the constitution would be a costly and time-consuming task. And the pomp and circumstance is very useful from a diplomatic point of view. There’s nothing that a despot/tyrant likes more than the pomp and circumstance – riding in a coach with all those horse-guards around them. Basically, if you’re a tinpot ruler, in power because you’ve got more guns than your rival, there’s nothing better than a state visit to the UK. Meanwhile, in all state visits, either from those over there to here or by those here to over there, the real purpose is all the discussions behind the scenes – trade or diplomatic, or both. The financial value of having a suitable royal family goes way beyond the entrance fees to palaces.

The “suitable” is a problem, though. I’ve long thought there ought to be the equivalent of a charge of “conduct unbecoming” for a royal; much like the standards for police officers, military personnel, the clergy, and a whole host of other equivalents. From recent examples, the only penalties that are available stem from disapproval from Mummy.

As for Saint Diana: I was recently watching one of those royal documentaries that Channel 5 seem so fond of. My reaction was that Kate could do regal; Diana couldn’t. That’s because Kate focusses on doing the job to the best of her ability; Diana focussed on the cameras watching her do the job. I reached the conclusion that Harry married his mother.

I imagine the queen would like them to do something worthwhile

Would she? What evidence do we have of that?

but they are private citizens and they can do what they like.

Who said that they couldn’t? The point is, stoneofdestiny remarked that they aren’t doing proper jobs and another poster said that wasn’t true and that B & E were doing ‘real, paid jobs’. They aren’t. They are doing made up jobs that are only open to them because they are royal.

People fixating on Harry and Meghan are forgetting that the Royal Family has been through far worse, as anyone who watched The Crown will remember: Charles and Diana (and Camilla), Princess Margaret and her abortive romance with Peter Townsend, Edward VIII and Mrs Simpson etc. It goes back decades, this sort of thing.

Its also not as simple as saying "people don't like x royal so the monarchy will end". The monarchy has a very complex constitutional role so it won't come to an end just because people don't like the cut of a particular king or queen's jib.

I'm very ambivalent about the monarchy: I think the hereditary principal in this day and age is impossible to justify and embeds all sorts of elitism, privilege and clubbability which filters through all parts of society. On the other hand they do seem to provide some sort of bulwark against despotism which for whatever reason does sort of function. I think ultimately they probably will fade into irrelevance but I don't think it will happen for decades, even centuries.

PicsInRed

I also note that Megan and Harry left weeks after her name was removed from her child's birth certificate - something about which she was apparently quite upset (referring to it as making her "nameless" on her own child's birth cert). Why was her name removed? On whose orders?

Where on earth have you heard this? Once a birth has been registered, the only thing that can be changed is the child's name. There is no way that the name of the mother can be removed.

Yes @joystir59 colonialists and slave traders, and still profiting from the displacement of Indigenous people from their lands through their investments in mining etc.

It would have been nice if H and M bothered to understand these histories properly before styling themselves as woke humanitarians... who opted to continue to profit from the institution albeit in new and 'creative' Hollywood ways. They have not 'modernised' the monarchy; they are not humanitarians; and no, Meghan is not a feminist. They = cling to their titles while maintaining a hideously expensive lifestyle, made possible only through these past and present structures of inequality and exploitation. Decolonisation this is not.

I almost prefer the rest of the family in this sense, as they don't claim to be anything they're not.

@hoteltango

PicsInRed

I also note that Megan and Harry left weeks after her name was removed from her child's birth certificate - something about which she was apparently quite upset (referring to it as making her "nameless" on her own child's birth cert). Why was her name removed? On whose orders?

Where on earth have you heard this? Once a birth has been registered, the only thing that can be changed is the child's name. There is no way that the name of the mother can be removed.

It's been all over the news.

Harry's name remained, his style only slightly altered, Megan's name was removed and only the generic style remained.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/meghan-markle-archie-birth-certificate-b1795520.html

Though not as described.

@Iamthewombat

I might have some respect for your views StoneofDestiny if they weren’t peppered with things that just aren’t true. Beatrice and Eugenie both have jobs. Paid jobs. And they continue to also do a lot of charity work as well.

Perhaps dig a little deeper into these paid jobs that ol’ Bea and Eug managed to secure through their enormous talents.

And the jobs that Peter and Zara Philips got. Entirely on their own merits, naturally.

None of these paid jobs require much effort on the part of the individuals doing them, and seem to allow the employees plenty of time off for holidays. Funny, that.

Whoa Zara is an elite athlete. You don't win Olympic or European Championship medals because of who your parents are.

Money helps of course, and parents who are in the game can't hurt, but that can't get you to the top. The fact is you need guts, determination, a lot of hard work and a heap of talent to get where she is.

I like Charles. I like Camilla. I don’t have Diana on a pedestal, William and Kate have not lost popularity over the fallout.

The profit made by the royal family is insane vs their cost. They are going nowhere.

Whoa Zara is an elite athlete. You don't win Olympic or European Championship medals because of who your parents are

However, she has managed to become a highly paid non-exec director of Cheltenham racecourse precisely because of who her mother and grandmother are.

I won’t bother explaining why the children of wealthy people are more likely to win medals in expensive sports like show jumping and sailing.

[quote PicsInRed]Harry's name remained, his style only slightly altered, Megan's name was removed and only the generic style remained.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/meghan-markle-archie-birth-certificate-b1795520.html[/quote]
This was apparently the fault of their own team at KP, with whom the changes were discussed and agreed and not the result of any kind of diktat from BP.

I can't believe we have a monarchy in the 21st century. Other countries have managed to transition to a republic without too much difficulty (we're not going to have the storming of the Bastille or the Winter Palace all over again).
It isn't true to say that the Royal Family bring in more money than they cost. Not factored into that is the enormous personal wealth owned by the Queen which is impossible to quantify and surrounded by secrecy. Priceless works of art, antiques and jewellery are also owned personally. Linked to the monarchy is the whole aristocracy who own huge areas of land in the UK just because of who they were born to. It perpetuates and to some extent legitimises the terrible wealth inequality in this country. The Duke of Westminster owns so much of London through no effort or talent.
We would attract more tourists if we got rid of them all. Imagine being able to traipse round all of Buckingham Palace rather than a few rooms and the gift shop. The most popular tourist attraction in Europe is the Louvre I think and in England it is the Tate Modern.

I don't know any of the royal family personally so can't say what I think of them and their relationships. Wish they would all become private citizens and leave us all to creating a modern democracy for future generations. Perhaps they could all stop killing animals too while they're at it (while being patrons of wildlife charities).

I think there will be less appetite for royalty once the Queen goes.