To not find Sex and the City actually that 'problematic'?

[whyorwellmatters]

It seems to be in vogue to take shows like Friends and SATC, and decide they're problematic by today's standards.

Currently rewatching season 1 of SATC, and have noticed nothing especially bad.

What's all the fuss about?

I was quite young when SATC first aired, so only watched a couple of episodes from season one about 4 years after they were released. Even by then they'd dated badly, and new episodes were still being made at that point!

For example in one of the episodes I saw, Carrie merrily watched a sex tape that one of her male friends had made without his partner's knowledge. I remember thinking at the time that it was a really creepy, shitty thing to do (more him than her!), and didn't watch many more episodes after that. Like a PP who sounds about the same age, I definitely didn't click with it.

The comparisons between Friends and Sex and the city are really interesting. To me, Friends has its bad moments, like the way Chandler talks about his dad. But his dad broke up the family on thanksgiving, slept with the pool boy and was just generally a shitty parent. It made sense he didn't view him in the best light.
Whereas SATC, that bisexuality scene is crass conversation with her judgey friends about someone she has pretty much just met.

Side note - Aiden deserved so much better. Carrie was his Mr Big

@DonEmmanuelsDingleberries

I was quite young when SATC first aired, so only watched a couple of episodes from season one about 4 years after they were released. Even by then they'd dated badly, and new episodes were still being made at that point!

For example in one of the episodes I saw, Carrie merrily watched a sex tape that one of her male friends had made without his partner's knowledge. I remember thinking at the time that it was a really creepy, shitty thing to do (more him than her!), and didn't watch many more episodes after that. Like a PP who sounds about the same age, I definitely didn't click with it.

I seem to recall in that episode, the outcome was that the guy was clearly a prick and nobody liked him? I might be wrong...

What's supposed to be 'problematic' about it?

Can't say yabu or yanbu until I know.

I wouldn’t say problematic, like anything 20 years ago it seems a bit dated.

I think a few of us who were young then have matured in to radical feminists, so find the depiction of loads of casual sex which doesn’t accurately reflect how dangerous some encounters can be for women, rings hollow. And I loathe the emphasis on waxing etc which features in later episodes. It just embraces oppressive views of how women’s bodies should be conditioned and plucked for men’s benefit. A few of us now reject that view. I guess that’s it.

"Did you sign off your post?"

Yes :)

Jo

@JoBrodie

"Did you sign off your post?"

Yes :)

Jo

Nothing especially bad? The standards of the script perhaps?

I watched a critique of the show not that long ago. One critique was that the two gay best friends marry. But this happens in most shows that they hook up people we met before. Like when the heads of house hooked up in the final season of downtown Abbey. I could be wrong though...

@TheKeatingFive

if Samantha isn't in it, what's the point?

This. Why bother?

Exactly.

I agree about Carrie, but then I always found her incredibly annoying. I watched it for Samantha and Miranda. The second movie was awful on every level.

The lack of non white characters? Although I guess there weren’t many non white people in New York 20 years ago

I seem to recall in that episode, the outcome was that the guy was clearly a prick and nobody liked him? I might be wrong...

I can't remember what the other characters thought of him tbh, but I think Carrie basically dismissed it because the women he filmed were models/actresses(?), so didn't really count as people in her eyes It was a long time ago though, so memory is a bit hazy!

The sequel project won't be called S&TC, it's going to be called And Just Like That... so I think even the people behind it are making a statement about the original. Apparently it will focus on their lives as 50 somethings and not try to recreate their earlier lifestyles. I loved S&TC (expect the 2nd movie, the trailer was a cringe fest so I swerved it) and I hope it'll be worth watching the reboot but for different reasons. I don't have the same obsessions I had 20 years ago, or even 8 years ago when I watched it all over again. But that re-watch was very satisfying and shoot me but I could easily enjoy it a 3rd time. But this is MN, so the option of liking what you like for its own sake and not being ripped to shreds is quite rare 🙄 As cleverer people than me have said, it was of its time and actually it's not as complete a thought-crime as lynchings or the Holocaust, and will only confirm prejudices in the prejudiced. Many of us are quite capable of thinking for ourselves and taking the bits we like and filtering out the rest.

Plus Aidan was a babe and that simpering narcissist Carrie never deserved him 😄

What resonated for me when I first watched and enjoyed SATC was that I was watching a show which centred women and their friendships - the men were really background characters even the lovely Aiden (swoon). I ignored loads of things that I couldn’t relate to, were nothing like my life or were ‘problematic’ because it was so great to see women front and centre. Hated the films though ...

Nobody has mentioned this but I felt the most "problematic" aspect of the show was pushing a generation of women into gold-digging. All the characters were successful in their own right which is great, however there was so much emphasis on luxury, glamour, class and wealth that aspiring to the show made your own life so much harder!

Carrie and Mr Big, Charlotte and Trey, Samantha and the movie star guy all imply that a life without background luxury is not worthy of being the main character. I wonder how many women who loved the show ended up unhappy in their own lives because it lacked the shiny excitement of wealth. Or the men they dated didn't match up to those fictional characters who belong in the 0.01%, making it statistically near impossible that three random friends would all be dating (multi) millionaires.

Obviously Miranda and Steve is the exception but the show strongly glosses over problems in a financially mismatched relationship. Viewers are shown that Miranda happily pays for everything and is with Steve for love. Imagine a MN thread about a high flying working mum having a baby, taking care of everything, paying for the home and housekeeper and dealing with her MIL with dementia while her husband works as a barkeeper. There are so many potential problems in that dynamic but the show doesn't explore it further.

I always found it to be an embarrassment. Never understood the obsession.

I remember very powerfully what an impact it had at the time. My 20 year old self was blown away.

Meanwhile, my 19 year old self thought it was as steaming pile of shite.

I used to love it and have watched it again and again over the years but it has dated badly.

I agree with PP’s about the shameful lack of diversity. Jennifer Hudson was a great addition in the film but by then it just felt like a tick box exercise. They should have had much more diversity of colour from the start especially in a multi cultural city like New York.

Loved it then, still do. It still makes me laugh out loud. I have no interest in whether people find it un-PC by today's standards.

I wonder how many women who loved the show ended up unhappy in their own lives because it lacked the shiny excitement of wealth.

Nobody I knew. We were aware it wasn't reality. The glamour was just more fun to watch.

Again, nobody worries about the detrimental impact on men of James Bond and his designer suits, Aston Martins and string of supermodels. It's only women who might be corrupted by light entertainment.

But shows are not supposed to give anyone ethical examples, they are supposed to be fun and relate to the demographic they target.

@TickyTok

Nobody has mentioned this but I felt the most "problematic" aspect of the show was pushing a generation of women into gold-digging. All the characters were successful in their own right which is great, however there was so much emphasis on luxury, glamour, class and wealth that aspiring to the show made your own life so much harder!

Carrie and Mr Big, Charlotte and Trey, Samantha and the movie star guy all imply that a life without background luxury is not worthy of being the main character. I wonder how many women who loved the show ended up unhappy in their own lives because it lacked the shiny excitement of wealth. Or the men they dated didn't match up to those fictional characters who belong in the 0.01%, making it statistically near impossible that three random friends would all be dating (multi) millionaires.

Obviously Miranda and Steve is the exception but the show strongly glosses over problems in a financially mismatched relationship. Viewers are shown that Miranda happily pays for everything and is with Steve for love. Imagine a MN thread about a high flying working mum having a baby, taking care of everything, paying for the home and housekeeper and dealing with her MIL with dementia while her husband works as a barkeeper. There are so many potential problems in that dynamic but the show doesn't explore it further.

To be fair, I think they did deal with the financial mismatch. Didn’t Steve break up with Miranda over an expensive suit he couldn’t afford in one of the early series? And he wasn’t just a bartender, he owned a bar with Aiden.

I did find it bizarre when Carrie ran into Aiden in the street though... with a baby. And he was married. All of which was brand new information to Carrie, despite Steve being his best friend and having a baby with Miranda at the time... did Steve just not notice?!

*They should have had much more diversity of colour from the start especially in a multi cultural city like New York.

I feel uncomfortable with people telling people what to write and who to cast.

There are PLENTY of diverse shows from that era. Some shows featured only black people too. Fresh Prince, Keenan and Kel, and so many others

One thing that does annoy me is that Carrie really needs CGM!!

It won’t work without Samantha, I hope they don’t try. What a shame to ruin its legacy if they do. It was a great tv series and should be left that way.