AIBU to think that a child having a zoom one-to-one with parent present isn't a safeguarding issue?

[dramalamma]

I had a parent teacher meeting over the phone yesterday for DD (7). She's been really struggling to engage the last week after being really good at keeping up and is refusing to watch the teachers videos so her teacher suggested a one on one zoom call just to help her with one maths concept and touch base. They do have class zoom calls twice a week but she's the oldest in a composite class (youngest is 4) so it gets a bit crazy and she doesn't really get to say what she wants to.
I've just had a message (very apologetic) to say headteacher has said she can't do this as it's a child protection/safeguarding issue even if I'm there the whole time.
Do other children/schools have one on ones? I can see how it's not necessary or advised when they're at school but surely during lockdown it's a bit different and with the parent present? Any ideas how I can challenge this/find a way around it?

In the time it's taken this head to say "no" she could have acted as a second adult on the call and allowed it to go ahead.

If the reason for not allowing it is workload she should say so. Very bad practice to use safeguarding as an excuse, as it muddies the waters and prevents effective safeguarding where there is a need. Also, it either makes the head look unintelligent or makes parents think safeguarding is a ridiculous waste of time. Or both.

@Porridgeoat

Ask why this is a safeguarding issue as it seems a weird rule to want to be alone with a child.

Teachers are directed not to be alone with children where possible and so this seems very odd statement. Having a parent present acts as protection for the teacher.

You have no control over whether the parent remains in the room. And you have no control over the integrity of the parent, or of their competence as a witness

This is mad.

How is there possibly a safeguarding risk if a child has a parent in the room?

Children are left alone with their own parents all the time. Adding a teacher (DBS checked) on a video call does not add any risk to the child relative to sending a child to school with that same teacher (with no parent!). Teams and zoom are adequately secure as to be reasonable to say the technology risk is "managed". So saying its "safeguarding" is either teachers making excuses, or teachers who are poor at adequately assessing and coping with risk.

I doubt very much that any school is allowing teachers to do zoom or teams contact from personal devices, teachers have had school provided laptops since the 90s. So the minute risk to the teacher (eg of lack of witnesses) can be managed by recording.

Teachers do speak to children on their own! I often teach 1:1.
We initially had to have a TA on the call as well but then it was just a parent/carer.

The safeguarding POV isn’t about protecting the child but protecting the teacher from accusations so the parents presence may not mean a lot. However this can be overcome from a school POV by having two adults present, recording the call or having it in a communal area of achool

If it's a one off I'd ask if another teacher or a TA can join the call so it can go ahead as suggested. If it's a regular thing, unless your DD is receiving funded individual support, it's not likely to be sustainable as school won't have the staff. Mainstream school is a group learning environment and resourced accordingly.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I doubt very much that any school is allowing teachers to do zoom or teams contact from personal devices, teachers have had school provided laptops since the 90s. So the minute risk to the teacher (eg of lack of witnesses) can be managed by recording.

This isn't true at any school I have worked at in 10 years.

You have no control over whether the parent remains in the room. And you have no control over the integrity of the parent, or of their competence as a witness

No - so by asking the parent to agree in advance that they will remain in the room, you pass the responsibility for the child to the parent.

The risk of the parent's integrity or competence as a witness is managed by recording.

Too many teachers are looking for reasons to not do video contact, rather than looking for ways to manage and mitigate the risk. You should be saying " we need to do it so how do we manage the risk", not "we can't do it for x,y,z reason".

Just because people can't understand the safeguarding issues doesn't mean they aren't valid.

I don't think that many parents understand the true range of home lives that teachers are managing at the moment. I can't really go into details, but video calls have led to over a dozen significant safeguarding referrals since January in my small school. This is likely replicated across the country. Of course, the fact that video calls have uncovered this is so, so important and means that we will continue to do them. But in a safe way, controlled by the school and following the process that we have decided on.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

You have no control over whether the parent remains in the room. And you have no control over the integrity of the parent, or of their competence as a witness

No - so by asking the parent to agree in advance that they will remain in the room, you pass the responsibility for the child to the parent.

The risk of the parent's integrity or competence as a witness is managed by recording.

Too many teachers are looking for reasons to not do video contact, rather than looking for ways to manage and mitigate the risk. You should be saying " we need to do it so how do we manage the risk", not "we can't do it for x,y,z reason".

Recording is also against safeguarding, and totally banned by many schools, particularly in zoom, which is very insecure

@Rowenasemolina “No. No teacher would talk to a child alone in their class, no head would talk to a child alone in their office. Either would be a disciplinary offence.”

That may be true in your school but it is absolutely not true in mine where teachers and TAs regularly work with children 1:1 and alone in classrooms.

There is not a national ban on school staff being alone with children, every school will have its own policy. Being alone with a child was not an automatic disciplinary in any school I have worked in, I’ve never been told as a teacher not to be alone with students and there are times where it is reasonable for a teacher or other member of school staff (TA, school nurse, school counsellor, headteacher etc) to support students 1:1 without another person present. I expect that school policy will vary based on the type of school (early years, primary, secondary, special, PRU etc), the catchment area, the needs of the cohort and the SLT who feed into school policy but don’t assume that just because it would be a disciplinary in your school that is the case in all schools, because it absolutely isn’t.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

You have no control over whether the parent remains in the room. And you have no control over the integrity of the parent, or of their competence as a witness

No - so by asking the parent to agree in advance that they will remain in the room, you pass the responsibility for the child to the parent.

The risk of the parent's integrity or competence as a witness is managed by recording.

Too many teachers are looking for reasons to not do video contact, rather than looking for ways to manage and mitigate the risk. You should be saying " we need to do it so how do we manage the risk", not "we can't do it for x,y,z reason".

You clearly know nothing about safeguarding and abuse. You don’t enter a dangerous situation ‘looking for ways to manage the risk’. You just don’t enter the arena of unsafe practice in the first place.

The litergy of catastrophes from the first lock down, in which this sort of stupid laxity left children at teachers at huge risk, many of whom suffered very significant harm, has clearly completely passed you by

We do them. We use google meet and record them if they are for individuals rather than classes. Can you ask whether they could be recorded to protect everyone?

Rowenasemolina

All I know is there are 4 teachers in my family. All have done 1 to 1 zooms , with appropriate controls in place. Risk management does not mean taking no risk. It means managing the risk to a level where it is not high enough to warrant the damage done by not undertaking the activity. Teachers bear a normal level of risk in teaching children in person on a daily basis, and have always had to tolerate the (low) level of risk of children accusing them. Because they need to have contact with children to do the job.

You don’t enter a dangerous situation ‘looking for ways to manage the risk’. You just don’t enter the arena of unsafe practice in the first place.

Reread this and have a good laugh at yourself while thinking about police, social workers, prison officers etc who enter dangerous situations daily with appropriate controls in place.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I doubt very much that any school is allowing teachers to do zoom or teams contact from personal devices, teachers have had school provided laptops since the 90s. So the minute risk to the teacher (eg of lack of witnesses) can be managed by recording.

Well you are completely wrong. Many many schools require teachers to teach from their personal devices. Staff in my school have paid thousands to upgrade home equipment and WiFi. I’m on my personal laptop or phone all day every day, as are all my colleagues, and as are friends of mine teaching in many other schools.

I don’t know where you are getting this fantasy that teachers are provided with laptops to take home. I’ve worked in 19 schools since the 1990s, and this has happened it 2 of them, and in 1 of those it was fewer than half of teaching staff, with a waiting list of around 18 months

Maybe it’s the safety of the other children?
Who watches them while the teacher is in a 1-1 online?
It might be more of a logistical issue

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

You don’t enter a dangerous situation ‘looking for ways to manage the risk’. You just don’t enter the arena of unsafe practice in the first place.

Reread this and have a good laugh at yourself while thinking about police, social workers, prison officers etc who enter dangerous situations daily with appropriate controls in place.

You don’t know what you are talking about. I volunteer in the local prison, and have a lot of connection with social workers and police. We are talking about safeguarding . Do you Understand what ‘arena of unsafe practice ‘ means. It means behaviour which compromises the safeguarding of children It doesn’t mean taking a physical risk with your safety. Which I do in other circumstances. But that is not entering the arena of unsafe practice.

There are lots of teachers on here. Perhaps some of the teachers on here saying it isnt possible can learn from some of the teachers who are making it happen. Really we need a centralised teacher resource sharing platform where standardised policies can be shared, in the same way childminders often use generic policies from PACEY with adaptations. For example my sisters school has a parental code of conduct which must be signed etc for 1 to 1 contacts to go ahead.

*10 not 19 schools

Yes I know what arena of unsafe practice means.

How are other teachers managing it then? Please do enlighten us all as to why they aren't as qualified in their profession as you are, to assess and determine an acceptable level of risk where safeguarding is concerned.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

There are lots of teachers on here. Perhaps some of the teachers on here saying it isnt possible can learn from some of the teachers who are making it happen. Really we need a centralised teacher resource sharing platform where standardised policies can be shared, in the same way childminders often use generic policies from PACEY with adaptations. For example my sisters school has a parental code of conduct which must be signed etc for 1 to 1 contacts to go ahead.

Or perhaps some of the teachers ‘making it happen’ can learn from their wiser, more experienced colleagues and stop ‘making it happen’. They probably mean well, but are extremely misguided, and done if them, sadly, will learn that the (very) hard way

Ok Rowena I'm just going to not even respond to you. I can only draw on what I have physically seen - which is that 1 to 1 video call contacts are happening widely.

You are an anonymous username, who could be talking utter bollocks, or at least presenting a facet of this situation influenced by your personal opinion which is clearly that you don't think 1 to 1 contact should ever happen (despite the millions of children who attend 1 to 1 tutoring, music lessons, sports coaching etc every year.

This is why DBS checks are required of people who are going to be working with children without parents present.

I mean really no one should ever have children at all should they. Because that means there is a risk of harm.