To think children should be taught financial literacy?

[HeidiHaughton]

All the threads from women in such precarious financial situations. Never seemed to occur to them the cost of not working. And the invariable refrain that it "didn't make sense to go back after maternity leave". Surely as a social good people should be educated about how finances work.

@4redSocks

* I believe most people who struggle to budget do so because the cost of living compared to their reasonably achievable salaries is too high, or because they are struggling with other issues like addictions, compulsive behaviour etc. * *@MagentaDoesNotExist* this is the whole point of money management. Weather your budget is greater than the persons next door it doesn’t matter. Everybody has a budget even some celebs will need to budget to some extent.

Budgeting is not just a thing that exists for low amounts of money.

Yes, I said exactly that. More money out than in equals misery, it's even taught in children's stories. We all know that. I don't think that for most adults who fall into financial difficulty, the issue is that they do not understand this concept. That's my point. 99% do. Their financial troubles sre caused by other factors.

Yanbu and they are taught in my house!

4 year old has toy shopping till and money. I set up tiny pots with priced up things he can buy (5 raisins, a sticker, 5 cheerios etc) and we talk about how 10p wont buy everything

@Mudmudingloriousmud

Umm well its a variety of factors, if your parents are at war or you don't really have a stable family, and you go to school unsettled you won't get dc to learn much but.. Visual learners need more than a colourful TV program?. I mean physical, tactile learning, multi sensory lessons.. Attacking the learning in different ways.

So many dc are from no stable family at all.. One night stands.. As I said earlier.. No actual parent who wants them because they are on to families way down the line?.

Many dc will not understand the more complicated maths, they understand the basics but they will go no further and above all, no maths teaching has context or meaning for them at all. It's random and remote.

However, 15,16 year olds who may have Saturday jobs or want to drive, buy their own clothes.. become independent... Maybe more open to learning about this... Life skills.

I'm telling you now, starring at triangles isn't going to arm them with the financial skills they need.

Ok that's your opinion. I've lived much of that. Unwanted child, independent since 16, struggled with money a lot and lived in poverty for years struggling every month for rent and food or keeping my electricity on. I find your post a bit patronising to be honest.

ok give an example of how to teach about credit cards without sound positive or negative

Why would it need to be presented as positive or negative? Surely just the facts, which would outline both the positive and negative points of using credit cards.

And BTW Martin Lewis financial education textbooks for schools is downloadable for free so any parent who wants to teach their DC financial education at home can.

I agree. My parents weren’t the most helpful in filling the gaps either, I definitely believe that financial education should be made an equal playing field for every child. And not just for those who have financially literate parents, who are able to support and fill in the gaps. PP instead of asking what should be dropped. Perhaps increasing the school day would be an idea. Many countries manage 8-4pm senior schooling, I’m not sure why the state sector here can’t.

It is on the curriculum and we do teach it- also mentioned in lessons on negative numbers (how the bank doesn’t actually give you money when you run out- you’ll pay more back!). However, we also teach esafety and I still find my 10 year old pupils putting photos and full names on Facebook for all to see.

Yes. And they should be taught at school- many parents have no idea how to handle money correctly.

Martin Lewis has produced some resources for schools, I believe they are free.

Financial education is in the curriculum - there is statutory guidance relating to it from the DfE. It is usually taught as part of PSHE (the official subject title is now Personal, Social, Health and Economic education) although PSHE as a subject is actually non-statutory so the financial education part could be taught elsewhere.

In reality, it's a small part of an already overloaded curriculum. Schools aren't judged on it as they are on subjects with exam results (and all the pressure of league tables/Ofsted that goes with that) so in all likelihood kids will get a few lessons per year focused on this aspect.

I don’t think it should fall to schools, they have enough to cover as it is and it’s just one more thing some parents will opt out of doing for their children if someone else does it.

It’s not hard to work out finances and if you can afford x, y and z both now and in the future if things change.

It’s not just the finances though, it’s about them knowing they can’t have everything they want so needing to make wise choices than plough ahead regardless.

It’s not hard to work out finances and if you can afford x, y and z both now and in the future if things change.

It's not hard for you

I disagree! I'm a sahm but am well aware of the financial situation i'm in. I know it's not robust by any means but my mum worked full time and I felt very disconnected from her when I was growing up. I didn't want that for my children. When dh and I started to think about children, we downsized our house, got a smaller mortgages and cut our expenditures. As twee as this sounds, filling my children's pre school lives with lovely experiences (for us all!) has been completely worth it. Plus, if you're careful with money, holidays and fun days out are still possible.

magenta why is it patronising?.
It's my opinion and I'm working with these teens and my own maths is extremely poor so I can totally empathise with their situation and whilst I had already reasonably stable life in that I had two parents who adored need, yes we faced many issues over housing and budgeting and massive problems..
So I have lived it, seen it and see how these poor dc are wasting their time
. I have can't get my head around anyone thinking dc who struggle with maths are going to be better off persevering with triangles and algebra when they are entirely clueless when it comes to simple basic budgets?

Funnily enough there is also a thread about the retirement at 50 on million and posters have said people come into money and blow it.

People with very good income who don't know basics will struggle! They do!

I completely agree this stuff is essential. That said, the information is readily available, anyone who has a smartphone or other internet enables device can educate themselves on the financial basics. It's often will rather than skill. Some people don't care, or don't care enough, and they probably wouldn't have cared as kids either.

I have several friends who have spent years in debt because they don't understand how storecards or high interest rate loans work. I know others who are in a very precarious financial position protected only by the fact they are (for now) in a happy long term relationship. If that was to end, they would be screwed.

I don't know what the answer is, but there has to be something that can be done to stop the cycle of people mismanaging their money, encumbering themselves with (unmanageable) debt, or ending up in a relationship based on financial inequality which they are either trapped in, or up shit creek without.

@Mudmudingloriousmud

magenta why is it patronising?. It's my opinion and I'm working with these teens and my own maths is extremely poor so I can totally empathise with their situation and whilst I had already reasonably stable life in that I had two parents who adored need, yes we faced many issues over housing and budgeting and massive problems.. So I have lived it, seen it and see how these poor dc are wasting their time . I have can't get my head around anyone thinking dc who struggle with maths are going to be better off persevering with triangles and algebra when they are entirely clueless when it comes to simple basic budgets?

With respect, you've contradicted your own argument there. You say you have a loving family and your maths is poor. I had a terrible family and my maths is just fine. I'm not aware of any study demonstrating causation between the two and from my persoective it's pretty obvious that most people who struggle with money don't do so because they can't add and subtract. Since you say this is your professional area, could you please post the research that shows I'm wrong and that a lack of grasp of basic maths causes these problems?

@Grenlei you need to look deeper than that. People are unaware imagine coming from a family who robs Peter to pay Paul it’s the normal it’s your surroundings. It’s a bit like denial you don’t always realise your in denial.

There’s a lot of threads about food parcels from schools/vouchers. I’m shocked by some comments and I do wonder if budgeting has gone out of the window!

Obviously this isn’t always the case some people are just naturally money savvy and I am one of those nobody taught me that skill. My mother is a spender so it certainly wasn’t her.

Social media does not help. In this country it's very easy to see what other people have (material possessions, holidays etc) but not so easy to see what they earn. I think a lot of people on lower incomes underestimate what other people earn, and therefore get misguided impression of what is affordable on a low income. Social media gives people the idea that they should be affording expensive brands, days out, masses of food choice, brand new things for children, when actually on a low income you can likely afford none of those things.

I'm going to ignore the tone and reasoning of the OP....however I think it would be great if children were taught about finances, budgeting, managing money in schools, in the same way they could be taught about applying for jobs, writing cvs, interview skills etc.

I both agree and disagree. I am quite slow with maths and just couldn't be bothered with it at school. It was difficult and boring. I couldn't see what it had to do with my life.

Obviously once in the world of work, mortgages, pensions etc I realised I did need it and it's useful. Maybe if the lessons were more focused on HOW you would use maths that would have been better. I do recall one set of learning on proportionality where we looked at the front pages of newspapers and calculated how much % the photos took up on tabloids as opposed to broad sheets. I was really interested in that.

On the other hand we had several sessions in the 6th form on life skills and only when I was having a clear out many years later i realised we had been taught about mortgages and credit cards etc but I hadn't recalled any of it. I had a mortgage by then and it had been a real shock to me how much I'd pay in interest over the term. In the 6th form though it must have gone in one ear and out if the other whilst I daydreamed about my boyfriend.

The only life skills sessions I do remember were about learning to drive and getting your own car. I suppose because when I was 16-17 it was potentially imminent.

Honeylulu you've hit on an important point there.

By the time a lot of this feels relevant, people are often in their twenties and long beyond the reach of formal education. You can teach a 14 year old about credit cards but they are going to think it's boring & irrelevant and probably won't remember it.

Magenta, my argument.... is that there is are a cohort of teens, some of whom are extremely vulnerable, wasting hours of their ⌚ each week, being forced by the system to go over maths concepts they do not understand and will never need.
Many come from very difficult backgrounds.

I have feel we should be using this time to arm them with useful information instead of forcing them to try and grasp algebra and triangles.

Ideally all dc should leave school with a good grasp of the basics but more so those in bottom sets maths groups age 15 who are unlikely to catch up and no aptitude in maths nor interest in it.

I agree it should be on the school curriculum (I thought it was in PSHE?) But it doesn't matter how you "learn to budget", the point is that millions of people are underpaid and don't have enough money. A more important focus is having a more equal society. Divisions have become completely exposed and exacerbated in the pandemic.

I agree - I also think careers advice which encourages young people to consider that they may want flexibility in their work to care for children will contribute to a more equal sharing of caring responsibilities

I agree. My mum is very thrifty but when I was young the finances of my family were very much hidden from me and there was a general idea that I wouldn’t need to learn it.

Also, I think girls are often cultured into not thinking about the practical monetary aspects of life.