To think it’s unethical to film in a psychiatric ward

User56666 · 2021-01-31T13:21:40+00:00

I’ve just that Stacey Dooley has filmed another documentary in a mental health hospital. I’m shocked that this has been allowed especially in a pandemic.

BubblyBarbara · 31/01/2021 14:08

Google Titicut Follies. It was a documentary shot in the 60s of people being basically abused in an American psychiatric hospital. It was banned for thirty years but then released as it's more valuable for its exposure than damaging for privacy

PanamaPattie · 31/01/2021 14:12

@User56666 - I agree - how can you obtain informed consent from patients that may be too ill to fully understand the implications. Shameful.

Original poster

User56666 · 31/01/2021 14:21

I get that but the staff were all lovely in Thais documentary. Unfortunately as I’ve been inpatient I know this isn’t always the case. So I’m not sure if it really shows the realty of how inpatient units truly are.

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Stompythedinosaur · 31/01/2021 14:32

I assume anyone shown has to consent? Just because someone has a mental health problem doesn't mean they automatically lack ability to consent to things like this.

AStudyinPink · 31/01/2021 14:36

I hate this sort of thing.

MissBaskinIfYoureNasty · 31/01/2021 14:40

They will have had to consent. Her other one was very well done. I have been an inpatient too.

Original poster

User56666 · 31/01/2021 15:06

Yes but they might agree to it and then change their mind in the future. Especially young people as many of them were.

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BonnieDundee · 31/01/2021 15:11

I agree OP. YANBU

Original poster

User56666 · 31/01/2021 15:15

Especially as she filmed in a pandemic when often people’s families couldn’t even visit.

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Skyliner001 · 31/01/2021 15:29

Television productions and films go through lengthy compliance processes. It is never just as simple as going in and filming… Do not assume that just because somebody has a mental illness that they do not have the right to consent.

Skyliner001 · 31/01/2021 15:30

@User56666

Yes but they might agree to it and then change their mind in the future. Especially young people as many of them were.

In which case they can withdraw their consent because the conversation that the production company will be having with them will be ongoing. If they withdraw their consent after broadcast they can then be edited from the program before it is redelivered.

Haenow · 31/01/2021 17:15

@Skyliner001

Television productions and films go through lengthy compliance processes. It is never just as simple as going in and filming… Do not assume that just because somebody has a mental illness that they do not have the right to consent.

It’s not about the right to consent, it’s capacity to consent and I have concerns over some types of documentaries. Filming people around the time of mental health act assessments makes me questions the ethics.

Skyliner001 · 31/01/2021 17:16

I'm pretty sure they're across that.

Surely a better place to complain about this would be to the production company involved, rather than to an anonymous forum?

Just a thought.

Haenow · 31/01/2021 17:48

@Skyliner001

I'm pretty sure they're across that.

Surely a better place to complain about this would be to the production company involved, rather than to an anonymous forum?

Just a thought.

This is a debate about the ethics of such programmes, not a complaint.

Lemmeout · 31/01/2021 17:53

Yabu and fyi I speak from personal experience.
So long as compliance is agreed. And let’s not talk of capacity, which is decision specific.
A blanket secrecy rule does nothing to destigmatise mental Ill-health.

Twizbe · 31/01/2021 17:53

Often if it's deemed that a person isn't capable of giving informed consent, consent will be denied.

It might mean a fuzzed out face / hidden voice or their story not being covered.

purplepoppet92 · 31/01/2021 18:07

I would assume those shown have capacity to consent and have consented.
Having a mental health difficulty does not automatically rid you of capacity, and even if deemed to lack in capacity that will only be lacking capacity in certain areas of life, not all

Haenow · 31/01/2021 18:08

@Lemmeout

Yabu and fyi I speak from personal experience. So long as compliance is agreed. And let’s not talk of capacity, which is decision specific. A blanket secrecy rule does nothing to destigmatise mental Ill-health.

Capacity is also time specific...

Pepperxo · 31/01/2021 18:23

Mental illness and mental capacity to consent are two different things.

Someone1987 · 31/01/2021 18:25

What programme it please?

B33Fr33 · 31/01/2021 18:30

Surely consent must come from an advocate for those patients deemed unable to make those decisions for themselves? Most of them will retain their right but somE may have an advocate. I think it's very important to show this environment as they're hardly accurately portrayed in films / books! More openness for care or health environments (as has happened with schools over many years) means improvements in welfare.

pointythings · 31/01/2021 18:38

Haenow fluctuating capacity is a thing, but it's arrogant to assume that just because someone is an inpatient, they do not have capacity to consent. In fact, you cannot even assume that someone who is on a section lacks the capacity to consent. I spent 12 years working in health research and it was hammered into us that capacity to consent must be assessed on a case by case basis, and consent must be reiterated at each visit. I would imagine the procedure for filming in the UK is similarly rigorous.

It would be unethical to exclude people with mental ill health from an opportunity to have a voice.

partypooperforever · 31/01/2021 19:13

There's something about Stacey Dooley I don't like and I can't put my finger on it

Original poster

User56666 · 31/01/2021 19:15

Someone1987 This is the program. She also did one last year www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/m6ydb8/stacey-dooley--stacey-dooley-back-on-the-psych-ward/

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canidartifice · 31/01/2021 19:24

@User56666

I get that but the staff were all lovely in Thais documentary. Unfortunately as I’ve been inpatient I know this isn’t always the case. So I’m not sure if it really shows the realty of how inpatient units truly are.

Well, they're going to be lovely when they're being filmed. And similarly, they're going to make sure any of their abusive or unethical practices don't get filmed.

Things like this make me uncomfortable because they're unbalanced and distorted for this reason, which makes it harder for vulnerable voiceless people to be listened to and protected when they are harmed by staff and structures.

The issue of consent is also more complex. Not because "mentally ill = unable to consent" but because these are people in an exceptionally vulnerable position. Capacity is one element of legally valid consent, but so is the requirement for there to have been no coercion.

When considering consent issues with people detained (under MHA or in prison) you have to consider perceived coercion arising from their detention, vulnerability and lack of power. Not just actual coercion.