To ask if there’s actually a rule on who is responsible for what fence.

[AnnB30]

Hi all. We have a fence all around our garden which is shared with neighbours on the right (own their house) and neighbours on the left (rent) their house if that’s relevant, we own ours. There is nothing on our deeds to say who is responsible for what. Also we share a fence with the person behind us but that bit seems very secure and unlikely to fall down.

It’s the row of fence either side of our garden.

On the left we’ve had a couple broken posts. Both us and neighbour have dogs so we just went halves as both wanted it done ASAP. So no issue here. Got the work done really quickly.

Now it’s the fence on the right. It’s about to collapse any day. The whole bloody thing is swaying in the wind and we’ve added a couple posts diagonally to hold it up. I’ve mentioned to the neighbours that we need to fix it but we aren’t sure who’s responsible! We don’t mind paying as we just want it done but there’s not been any reply. It’s like they don’t care the fence is about to collapse.

There is nothing on the deeds so I so assume both could be responsible.

The worst thing is they’ve attached all sorts of stuff to the fence their side (planters, mud gardens etc) and have rows of plants along it which means it might be more difficult their side.. I did mention the fence being dodgy before they added all of it but they did it anyway. We are generally on good terms with them with no issues.

The issue isn’t really the money, it’s just the fact they haven’t really responded and they need to get all their stuff off the fence and they just seem to think we will just fix the fence no problem.

Aibu to be a bit annoyed, I’ve mentioned it to this a few times it needs fixing and they just haven’t responded.

It’s their own house too. So it’s not like they have to ask permission from the landlord or anything.

Is there actually a legal rule about who owns what side etc?

I just don’t want to be taken for a mug? It’ll be quite costly if we do it! we’ve already gone halves for the other side!

Get some quotes, knock on the door. Tell them happy for them to attach stuff to the fence if they’ll go 50-50 with you on cost (like other next-door neighbours) but if they don’t want to pay you’ll have to insist they don’t attach anything on their side as you’re bearing all the maintenance costs. And give them a date - in 3 weeks/a month? - by when you’re getting the workmen in.

If not on deeds it is whose land the fence sits on.

@NoSquirrels

Which side is the ‘good’ side? i.e. which way do the fence posts face? Do you have the flat good side, or the fence posts and the rough side?

(If they’ve got mud kitchens presumably their children are small, and if you’ve got a dog I guess they won’t want it in their garden... so they’ll have to respond one way or other soon enough! I’d strategically remove one of those props if I were you and give it a shove in their direction...

It doesn’t matter which side the ‘good’ side is on. I payed for all the fencing around my garden even though it’s shared (neighbours not interested in sharing). I gave myself the ‘good’ side.

@dementedpixie

Maybe they are waiting until it falls down before they need to think about it.

Possibly but bit of a silly idea to attach stuff to it after I said it’s not going to last long! We have been putting it off ourselves but it just needs doing. I’d rather do it now than have a fence completely down which will be a nightmare without dog and we both have kids!

No one is actually responsible for the fence. It's the boundary someone is responsible for. You dont need a fence; you just need to maintain the boundary line.
If you want a fence, then put one up on your side of the boundary and be very clear with them that the fence belongs to you and they cannot attach anything to it.

If you find out that you "own" the boundary line, then rip down the old fence, put up a new one and tell them they cannot attach anything to it as it belongs to you

This comes up regularly.

The left side thing is extremely outdated and very often untrue. Only your deeds will tell you what boundary you are responsible for.

The ‘good’ side is also unreliable. If your previous owners didn’t like the neighbours they are hardly giving them the good side of the fence.

There is no legal right to a fence. You could argue if you or the neighbour has a dog you have a duty to it’s safety but nobody can be compelled to install a fence should they not wish.

Your bst bet is probably to put up your own fence just inside your boundary. You’ll loose an inch or two of land but it’s then your fence. You will then need to tell your neighbour that as this is yours they have no right to paint, stain or hang anything from it.

If it’s just the wooden posts that have rotted at ground level these www.stalbridgebuildingsupplies.co.uk/building/fencing/repair-spur-75-x-75?code=CONCRETESPUR&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIprKe2__A7gIVqIFQBh1pEQbKEAQYAiABEgIiXvD_BwE
are really good. Not necessarily this supplier. I just googled. We’ve got several of these - local fencer charges about £25 each supplied and fitted.
It doesn’t matter which side of the fence faces your garden. We have the post side on all our fencing but only own three quarters.

We are responsible for our fence on the right if we look out from the house. But I have no idea why or if this is written down anywhere!

So ask again, but this time tell them that if you have to replace in full it’s your fence and they dont have permission to put anything in it, or grow anything up it so it doesn’t become damaged

No, it is the left. Not the right. I never know which is which...

On the boundary map to my current house, I own the fences to the right side of my garden & the rear fence.
I used to have a ground floor flat. The boundary map there stipulated that I was responsible for the fence on the left side of my garden...

From talking to friends & neighbours, there doesn't appear to be a hard & fast rule over this!

I think if they have attached things to the fence, they would be more responsible for it falling down... I would wait till it falls down and they come round and ask you what to do about it!
At which point you can generously concede to go halves with them

The thing is even if it turns out it’s their fence I do t think they have to replace what is there...they could put up a couple of wires and call it a fence.

My neighbour paid for a new fence along the whole of "my" side. It's really good quality close-boarded fence and took several days work to erect.

We had chain link fencing to keep the dogs in, and she simply didn't like it. She just asked if I would mind having a solid fence, she never asked if I was prepared to contribute to the cost, so that was a right result.

The other side is a nightmare though. It's hedged with lonicera nitida, the hedge was put in when the houses were built in 1936 and it's really gappy at the bottom. The NDNs ignored a very polite letter pointing out that it wasn't an effective barrier and suggesting that if we could reach an agreement about what to put in its place, we would be prepared to contribute to the cost.

After a year of their big dog crashing through the hedge and getting in our garden, and creating gaps so that our small dog could get into theirs, we bit the bullet and put chain link up along our side.

Now, there are huge trunks of ivy and clematis growing through the hedge and pushing our chain link over. Because of the chain link, I can't reach them to cut them back, so I think the fence will fall down eventually.

That side is their responsibility, but a solicitor friend said that there's no way of forcing them to sort it out.

It really pisses me off. Fence issues are a nightmare imo.

We had this problem.

The fence was on its way out when we moved in, we discussed it with NDN and they said they didn’t want to replace it so we did it.
We had to do it as cheap as possible because we’d just moved and money was tight.
We bought new panels (the cheapest we could get )and attached them to the old posts.

NDN decided to paint ‘their’ side of the fence (without asking us)
They then over the next few years attached many, many things to it, fairy lights, brackets for hangers, hooks for climbing plants.
Every so often we would ask them to remove it because we could see it was damaging the panels but they ignored us and added more stuff.

Within a few years the fence was visible wearing, and by the 5-6 year mark is was visibly leaning (into their garden from all the weight)
That winter a couple of panels fell and we reattached them as best we could.

They started making comments every time we saw them about how our Fence was going to need replacing soon to make it safe.
We asked them if they wanted to go 50/50 and they said no and were quite confident it was out fence so our responsibility to replace it.

we decided to splash out on a nice fence, proper planks on a frame, we had the whole garden done, both sides and the back (other NDN offered us 50/50 without us even asking).

NDN was watching them put it up and made several comments about how lovely it looked and how much nicer her garden would look, she even had the cheek to ask the builders to paint ‘her side’ a different colour to the stain they were using on it.

What she didn’t notice was that the fence was erected 6 inches from the old fence posts. (Which was still three inches inside my boundary)

She was very unimpressed when the builders the began erecting the boundary fence in the place of the old fence.
Four horizontal planks a foot and a half apart between each post with green ‘chicken’ type wire nailed to it for ‘security’, we told them we didn’t want anyone to be able to access our garden via the gap between the fence and the boundary.

NDN was incandescent, she demanded it be removed, threatened to take it down herself, threatened court action all sorts.
Eventually she nailed bamboo screens to it and now completely ignores me. 😂

You are legally responsible for a boundary - the boundary is literally a divide between 2 piece of land. It actually virtually impossible to legally up hold that someone is responsible for the fence/ wall/ hedge on the boundary because one that is on the true boundary is shared (as a boundary is shared). Others are on one side of the boundary or the other and therefore the responsibility of the person whose land it is on - they do not need to maintain a physical boundary though.

A neighbour could choose to remove a fence which sits on their land, even if it acts as the boundary. The boundary remains. If you (person whose neighbour has removed fence, not necessarily OP)do not like that there is no physical boundary between you, you have a right to erect a physical boundary on your land but have no obligation to maintain it.

On deeds it will often say that x house is responsible for x boundary but that does not mean they have to keep a fence etc there. Very very few deeds say what the boundary must be (we owned one house which specified that the boundary wall had to be retained and was joint responsibility. No other house has specified the nature of the boundary.

The rule of thumb is that the posts are on the land of the person responsible ime.

@ElementalIllusions nightmare neighbours aye! She sounds like a bleddy nightmare. The fences we have were out in place when houses were built and sold but no idea what fence is who’s etc. Boundaries aren’t clear either!! Seems to be ongoing problem around here.

It’s not so much the money, it’s the lack of care over the fence! They can attach stuff if the fence belongs to both of us of course but it’s just annoying that they’ve attached stuff after I said it was weak! This was late last summer and it wasn’t too bad but when the winter hits and the wind gets crazy here it’s going to come down. It looks like it might come down today! But the wind is calming down! It’s rock solid the other side after the posts were fixed!

We have that problem too OP. They hammer their crap fairy lights and pots onto the fence. So disrespectful.

@maddening

The rule of thumb is that the posts are on the land of the person responsible ime.

Incorrect. Sometimes might be the case but not always.

If you're really arsed get a survey could find its entirely on one side

"you have a right to erect a physical boundary on your land but have no obligation to maintain it."

Not totaly true if its dangerous youd be liable for any damage/injury it caused.

Just because the 6ft fence is 1inch over yourside of the doesnt stop it falling on everything within 5ft 11' of thier side

@maddening

The rule of thumb is that the posts are on the land of the person responsible ime.

Funnily all my neighbours were willing to 60/40 to have the "pretty" outside

You're describing two separate problems here. It doesn't matter who is responsible for the fence, it won't help you get agreement from someone who isn't listening. You could just do what we did. If you can't get your neighbour to talk to you about it, just take the fence down, remove the things they attached to it and leave these on their side (or leave them attached to the panels on their side, if you can't remove the items without damaging them) then put up your new fence. Ours were shouting and screaming the whole time we were replacing our fence (thankfully the posts were sound so we only had to replace the panels). We ignored them because their little ASBO shit son shot a crossbow at our rabbits the year before so their opinion was invalid.

No general rule

I've never understood the idea that the owner has the back side. For a closeboard fence it has to be built from the face side, so the owner can only have the back side if they stand on someone else's land to build it.