Why do so many organisations now require degrees and other Hugh level qualifications for what are administrative roles?

[Freedfromdesire]

Noticed this recently whilst job hunting. So many administrative positions seem to require a really high level of qualification? Why is this? What’s changed?

Qualifications at whatever level are facts that can be supported. I agree it is not ideal. Is it being done so that the number of applicants can be reduced, or to avoid charges of favouritism in whichever form?

Because there are many more graduates.

Ironically, it's the jobs you don't need a degree for (the trades, for example) are some of the best paid nowadays.

@longandwide

So, in your eyes, these jobs are so basic that they definitely don't require a degree.......yet you want to do these (in your eyes) basic jobs rather than looking for something you might find more challenging..........but the people offering these "basic" jobs aren't interested in you - let alone employers offering the more challenging jobs.

Must be confusing in your head trying to work all that out.

Do you think it might be a case of it "not being them, but being you"?

@longandwide

My post never said I’ve applied for those jobs.

My role is entirely different and statistics based.

I noticed whilst browsing a job site that the administrative roles suddenly seemed to have higher qualification requirements that about 10 years ago weren’t asked for as a base level. It was a wondering of what had changed in the job market. Lots of posters above have given brilliantly coherent discussion in these possible reasons but your post just sounds snarky and rude.

"@BeaTea I know many people who are nursery workers who have degrees too. It's a sham."

I think anyone who works with children, however young should have a good/high standard of education. Not only when teaching/developing our children but also a competency when writing reports/referrals etc .

I may have misunderstood what you are trying to say but if you are inferring that nursery workers do not need to be educated to a certain standard, that is implying you think it is a lowly job that doesn't require much intelligence.

Many degrees are not worth much, and too many people go to university now.

The result- a degree being required for an admin job, which could be done by a person with GCSEs.

I think this thread has been created to imply that some roles are lesser than others and therefore those roles require less qualifications.

I think it shows a lack of understanding that some admin roles require a level of intelligence and acumen that those with degrees think they are too "clever" for!

Admin roles i have held have all involved accountancy and reconciliation, , ( month end, quarter end, year end ) combined with a legal knowledge, particularly when working in large global organisations together with a huge command of the english language when writing and verbalising. If you become Customer Service Manager as i did , you also need to understand HR law and people management skills . You need to be able to hire and fire and PDP in between. Having started as a lowly admin myself 30 yrs ago, with 3 grade D cse's to my name, ( i had to leave home as violent father) i now earn treble what my friends who went to uni and have degrees , earn.

Tbf all my childhood friends who went to uni, married well shortly after leaving uni and had children. Have never worked a day in their lives, despite receiving full grants in the late 80's and early 90's. None of them have ever held a job.

Those " admin" jobs, those " nursery" jobs propel many onto bigger and better things. A fellow sch mum i knew used to work in my eldest DC's nursery 18 yrs ago. She now owns 3 nurseries and loaded. She was a young single mum. She trained on the job and worked hard. She has no degree but runs a successful business and contributes to the community.

Admin roles require a lot more than you give them credit for OP. I know many administrators who have contributed a huge amount to this economy , not only in their roles supporting business but their spending power.

Depends on what you classify admin.

There are accounts assistants or accounts payables that would be considered admin. Some marketing roles would be considered admin.

Gone are the days when admin meant organising diaries and making tea.

@Sheleg

Ironically, it's the jobs you don't need a degree for (the trades, for example) are some of the best paid nowadays.

Yep. All the secretaries/PAs/admins I've ever worked with have been wildly better qualified and worse paid than me.

I'm a software developer and you don't need any qualifications to be one. You just need to be able to do it and prove you can. It's a modern trade.

@WitchesNest ''Administrator is a highly dutied role''

Administrator roles are very basic roles where someone usually deals with simple office tasks like updating a database, dealing with mailings, ordering office supplies and helping with events and so on.

It is a supporting role and although important it does not require a lot of experience and can be done with basic skills. It certainly can be performed by someone that does not have a degree.

So hardly 'highly dutied' as you put it...

I started my career as an administrator as a way to get into a particular sector, and I soon moved on to more interesting roles once I had my foot through the door. I found admin jobs to be incredibly boring and repetitive. Any decent graduate won't stay long in that type of entry-level basic role anyway.

@Heyahun

Also having a degree shows you will stick at something and you were committed to finishing the course etc!!

Plus my degree had heaps of useful stuff in it for my office manager job - a hr module, marketing module for example - which has come in super useful at work as we are a small business so I Do a lot of the marketing and HR -

When I was in school a teacher said the same, it shows you have stuck at something.

"@ElectraBlue
Administrator roles are very basic roles where someone usually deals with simple office tasks like updating a database, dealing with mailings, ordering office supplies and helping with events and so on.
It is a supporting role and although important it does not require a lot of experience and can be done with basic skills. It certainly can be performed by someone that does not have a degree.
So hardly 'highly dutied' as you put it..."

Congrats @electra, you win todays most ignorant, ill informed , not read the full thread, insulting , oblivious to what jobs entail, comment of the day! 🏆

@lboogy

Depends on what you classify admin.

There are accounts assistants or accounts payables that would be considered admin. Some marketing roles would be considered admin.

Gone are the days when admin meant organising diaries and making tea.

This is a really good point. I work in ‘just admin’ but my role is incredibly skilled. We’ve all got degrees and relevant professional qualifications. Two of my colleagues have MAs and one of them graduated from one of the best universities in the world. The Head of my organisation once told a trustee who said someone was “just an administrator” that, in fact he (Head of organisation) ‘was just an administrator too’

@cretelover "When I was in school a teacher said the same, it shows you have stuck at something."

When i was at sch ( in the late 70's early 80's) my teachers told me i would amount to nothing. I left sch at 16 and home at 19 . I own 2 properties, one of which i rent out the other a large home in the countryside where my Dc's and i live. I have 3 cars , one my everyday, one my DC's and my 4x4 for county road driving/snow. I have always worked in admin. Does that count?

@cretelover forgot to add that I have worked for 34 yrs .

A lot of admin roles require an extensive skill set these days. It isn't typing letters and making the tea any more.

It is silly for many jobs, a great deal of it is because employers no longer want to train staff.

I’m an actuary, you don’t need a degree, you just need to be good at maths. I have a good maths degree from a very good university, an MA and my professional qualification. The only one I actually need is the professional qualification.

My partner is also an actuary, he took the apprenticeship route and qualified this year. Despite having the exact qualifications as actuaries who have a degree when he didn’t succeed at interview the main feedback tended to be that he studied an apprenticeship rather than a degree. This is completely stupid as every trainee actuary is essentially an apprentice. His data handling skills are also superior to mine.

I have just shortlisted for a Band 2 admin job (NHS). There were loads of applicants, the majority with degrees. We need someone with experience of clinical data and statistics and a good work ethic. They are weighted equally. The degree students had the data but lacked work experience. The applicants without degrees had more work experience. So the supporting statements helped us to shortlist. Some people with degrees did get shortlisted over people without and visa-versa.

I was saying this to DP just last night, I got a job suggestion from LinkedIn. I’m not actually looking but it was based close to home so thought I’d have a look and it described a job which is really niche. A job I’ve actually been doing for 5 years in the same industry. At the bottom it said only to apply if you have a degree.
The chance of finding someone who has a degree that would be of any use whatsoever in that job is minuscule. It seems crazy to me that they’re cutting out experience at submission stage over a degree.

My company doesn't have this policy, our Managing Director came up from the 'ranks' stating out sweeping the print room floor, I left school at 15 with no qualifications, and I was promoted to Operations Director last March at age 65, however our new HR Manager tries to insist we need people with degrees for basic admin work, I have had to change most of her recruitment ads to take this requirement off, in between lockdowns we actually had words we had a middle management position, one of our staff in despatch applied and was told by HR she wouldn't get an interview because she didn't have a degree even though its company policy to interview all inhouse applicants and the staff member was a team leader so had the relevant experience. I had to insist she was given an interview and she was a far better fit than any of the candidates that HR shortlisted.

I was an administrator years ago. Not once did my job involve any making tea, ordering stationery, organising anyone else’s diary or filing

[quote Fanacker1]"@ElectraBlue
Administrator roles are very basic roles where someone usually deals with simple office tasks like updating a database, dealing with mailings, ordering office supplies and helping with events and so on.
It is a supporting role and although important it does not require a lot of experience and can be done with basic skills. It certainly can be performed by someone that does not have a degree.
So hardly 'highly dutied' as you put it..."

Congrats @electra, you win todays most ignorant, ill informed , not read the full thread, insulting , oblivious to what jobs entail, comment of the day! 🏆[/quote]
Completely agree!

Back in the day, it was possible to get a decent job in a bank or nurse training with four 'O' Levels. With 'A' Levels, you could apply for a commercial training scheme with a really decent company. The world was your oyster with a degree.

There were loads of admin jobs ranging from filing clerk, junior admin to senior secretary and executive assistant. There was a bit of a pecking order and you worked your way up. Now it's perfectly acceptable to apply for PA to MD roles with no experience just because you have a degree. Companies then wonder why the candidate keels over after 6 months.

Admin jobs are more complex with much bigger workloads but they are often the road to nowhere. Salaries are also pretty shit as they just haven't risen over the last twenty years. I'd think it would be pretty disappointing to study for three years, accrue a whole pile of debt and end up in an admin job with no clear path for progression and low pay which is the reality for most.

@SimonJT

It is silly for many jobs, a great deal of it is because employers no longer want to train staff.

I’m an actuary, you don’t need a degree, you just need to be good at maths. I have a good maths degree from a very good university, an MA and my professional qualification. The only one I actually need is the professional qualification.

My partner is also an actuary, he took the apprenticeship route and qualified this year. Despite having the exact qualifications as actuaries who have a degree when he didn’t succeed at interview the main feedback tended to be that he studied an apprenticeship rather than a degree. This is completely stupid as every trainee actuary is essentially an apprentice. His data handling skills are also superior to mine.

My understanding is that actuaries continue training over the course of their careers. At least it was that way in the 90s, and you absolutely needed a degree if you wanted to work in a well regarded firm.

Because they’re up their own arses and can’t see pass a qualification and 55 years experience in the same role!

Ime it's often just a way of filtering.

Recruiting is often mind numbingly fucking boring. You have to plough through 30 CVs, read the same old 'A highly motivated and passionate individual' starters twenty times and often the majority of the CVs are much of a muchness anyway. Anything to lighten the load and sticking 'degree educated' Las a requirement is a quick way to cut the applicants in half.

It's worth bearing in mind that no one is prohibited from applying for anything, regardless of the requirements. And recruiters are looking for applicants that stand out amongst the bulk of carbon copy applicants they'll get.

It won't always work - but one sure fire way to make your CV stand out is to apply for a role stating degree needed without one. Then write a shit hot CV and wear your lack of degree status like armour, citing your wealth of experience instead.

I've known several people get interviews this way, out of sheer cheek or because as the only person in the pool who's been employed since 18 they truly do stand out - and the employer is pleased to see someone different, despite it being their own advert that created the opportunity.