to not understand the obsession with 4x4s

[Midlandsmum42]

I really don't understand why there are so many 4x4s on the road in cities and the country, half of the parents have them on the school run (when there was a school run). They are so bad for the environment and too big and unnecessary. They weren't needed in the past and aren't needed now. Completely understand why a farmer needs one or someone on construction sites but driving kids to school!!!

Where did I state a higher position = driving faster? confused I drive with the same care and attention regardless of which car I'm in. I can just see more in some situations in my 'big' car, ie pulling out of junctions where there are cars parked along the road I want to pull out on to. In my Saab, I may have to edge out to see the road past the parked cars. In my Merc, I can see over the parked cars without having to edge out - so in that situation, it's actually safer in the Merc.

So do it slowly then, look through the windows of parked cars, look through the gaps around then, even look under them, you can see shadows of cars and the wheels on the road. You again, don't need to be high up to manage that. It might take you a few seconds longer, but it's still safer.

I don't get the obsession with other people's cars. Why has this wound you up so much that you feel the need to post?

Obviously for some people it's a status symbol.

And obviously for others it's for other reasons, many of which have been covered here: occupant safety, visibility over hedges, pot holes and road conditions, muddy tracks, multiple children, hobbies which require large boots.

Luckily we live in a country which allows us the freedom to pick from a range of cars.

What's your aim, for all the SUV/4x4/AWD driving parents on this site to think 'gosh, you know what, never mind the global pandemic and the shitty fucking mess that is home school, I must dash onto autotrader and sell the car. A random stranger on Mumsnet said that because of my car I must be a rough,poor person who is only trying to impress and intimidate people whilst driving and parking badly, and that I should be thoroughly ashamed of my carbon footprint and my blatant disregard for pedestrian safety'

@Updatemate, we have a Volvo XC90. Even with both 3rd row seats up there’s room for a pram or a couple of hold-all’s. As it happens we only need one of those back seats so we have even more boot space. Smaller cars with occasional third rows placed my daughter’s head virtually against the rear window so didn’t look at all safe to me.

As it happens, I changed my old XC90 for the newer model last year. I’m less keen on the newer one as the split tailgate on the old model was excellent with the dog and with muddy children as they could sit there snd remove their wellies then easily climb through.

@CakeRequired

Where did I state a higher position = driving faster? confused I drive with the same care and attention regardless of which car I'm in. I can just see more in some situations in my 'big' car, ie pulling out of junctions where there are cars parked along the road I want to pull out on to. In my Saab, I may have to edge out to see the road past the parked cars. In my Merc, I can see over the parked cars without having to edge out - so in that situation, it's actually safer in the Merc.

So do it slowly then, look through the windows of parked cars, look through the gaps around then, even look under them, you can see shadows of cars and the wheels on the road. You again, don't need to be high up to manage that. It might take you a few seconds longer, but it's still safer.

So looking everywhere other than the actual road? Yeah, that's safer 😂😂😂😂

🙄

Anyway, I didn't buy the 4x4 solely to have a better view. I just love it and certainly won't apologise for it.

Well I have a 4x4, but it's a Mini Countryman so I'm definitely not towering over anyone nor am I using more petrol than a regular car. I guess not all 4x4's fall into the same category.

[quote Chloemol]@Midlandsmum4

I live Rurally, rough local roads, subject to flooding, they are also better for kids and the stuff they carry, people use them for hobbies, to carry stuff etc required as they are bigger than normal cares

But actually I don’t care who has them, or who doesn’t. It’s a personal choice we can all make 8n a free country and has bugger all to do with you[/quote]
Except the choice of car people drive does affect everyone else because we all have to live with the effects of air pollution and climate change.

My last three cars have been SUVs, I think you get used to the higher driving position. At the other end of the spectrum, my husband has a low slung sports car and I find it quite tricky to get in and out of and it's quite scary on the motorway as it's hard to see through the tiny back windscreen.

My current car (RR Sport) is a lot better in snow and off road than the Volvo XC 90 I had previously. But it's horribly unreliable, the LR garages treat you abysmally post purchase and I wouldn't get another. Last week's fault was the rear passenger door stopping latching, it's very difficult driving when the door keeps swinging wide open towards signposts and pavements.

Can't say I judge people on their car choice any more than their houses, clothes, holidays or whatever else they choose to spend their money on.

@FanSpamTastic

For us as a family of 5 - it was one of the few cars that gave every person a proper seat and not the "hump" middle seat. Also the boot space to fit 5 suitcases in when we used to be able to go on holiday.

I don't really care about the height above other road users or the type of fuel. Make an electric car with 5 proper seats (no stupid hump seat) and a big boot and I'll be buying that next time round when this one is done. Although by then I'm hoping all of the kids will have flown the nest and I can get a mid-life crisis soft top convertible!! Which - no doubt - are also completely unnecessary and some one will be along to complain about those too.

Tesla model S has 5 full size seats (EVs have no hump at all!) and a good sized boot too. We have one.

"Very few people really need 4wd" is a bit of a moot point really, as a high percentage of this style of vehicle are actually 2wd. Lots of people want the look without the additional cost and potential complications of 4wd. Obviously there are some marques who only sell 4wd vehicles, but on many popular SUVs it's an option, and the 2wd versions sell in far higher numbers. There are lots of cars on the market that "look the part", but in fact don't have 4wd.
Externally, apart from possibly the badge on the back, you can't tell of course so a lot of people tend to assume that all this type of vehicle are 4wd. Plus of course there are other cars that are 4wd with a different body style. People who do want 4wd don't necessary want an SUV.
I think the drivetrain type is a bit of a red herring in this debate. 4wd estates don't provoke the same reaction do they?
Convincing people that they don't need 4wd won't make much impact on the sales of this type of car, because that's not why most people buy them. Many SUV drivers either don't actually have 4wd, or they get it incidentally on a car that they choose for other reasons rather than really wanting it.
It is the body type that attracts most people to this type of car rather than the drivetrain. I'd imagine that elevated driving position and perceived safety and "robustness" are the biggest appeal. People often quote internal space/carrying capacity too, though in fact an estate car often gets you more of that.
I'm not sure what would reduce the popularity of this kind of car to be honest, but I am pretty sure that discussions on the relative merits of the various drivetrain options won't do it 4wd isn't the reason people buy them and nor is it really what people object to. Yes, 4wds tend to be a bit thirstier than the same car in 2wd which is a good reason not to have 4wd if you don't need it, but its the shape and size that's the real issue.

I have a 4x4 mini because we live on a big hill, in the country and it gets treacherous in heavy rain or when it's icy and it's easy to park at school.

We also have a big 4x4 because of the above and to ferry the 3 kids about, run the elder ones to uni/school with all their gear for the week/term and go on holiday.

I've been involved in a fatal traffic collision too and the big 4X4 makes me feel safer on long journeys on major roads.

It's not a status symbol at all just what works for our family.

As the previous poster said people's car choices do affect me and my children, bad environmental decisions affect all of us as do vehicles that are less safe for pedestrians etc etc. Yes it is a free country but it is a shame that people don't think more about the environment and others

@PattyPan, I think air travel and meat consumption are two of the biggest issues in climate change. Far bigger issues than those of us who choose to have 3 children or those who choose to have 4. I’m not blind to the problem as DH was a frequent flier for work which has obviously been impossible this year yet they’ve all managed to keep working by communicating remotely. Hopefully, it has shown many companies that face to face isn’t always needed. DH is quite senior and is lobbying to keep to what has worked during the pandemic. We’ve also dropped back to eating meat no more than 3x a week. Maybe not a huge difference in the wider scheme but we’re trying. Having 3 children doesn’t always equate to being environmentally feckless. We bought the car from new and paid a substantial voluntary carbon footprint offset fee too. It’s not perfect but it helps.

@Midlandsmum42, find me a non 4x4 car with a third row of seats that are designed to be up permanently and still leave boot space. I genuinely couldn’t find any.

@Midlandsmum42

As the previous poster said people's car choices do affect me and my children, bad environmental decisions affect all of us as do vehicles that are less safe for pedestrians etc etc. Yes it is a free country but it is a shame that people don't think more about the environment and others

Are we adding

• having more than 1 or 2 children
• pets
• artificial grass
• log burners
• foreign travel
• food miles
• eating too much meat
• palm oil
• microplastics
• hot tubs
• throwaway fashion

as well then?

I like mine because it's high up and I can see more. Feels safer (FORD Kuga). Easy to get in an out of too and have plenty of space in the boot when we were allowed to we go away.

@Midlandsmum42

As the previous poster said people's car choices do affect me and my children, bad environmental decisions affect all of us as do vehicles that are less safe for pedestrians etc etc. Yes it is a free country but it is a shame that people don't think more about the environment and others

And your children (how many?) are carbon neutral, yeah?

@NellyJames those are big contributors, but objectively the biggest thing that impacts your carbon footprint is the number of children you have.
www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children

Yeah, totally wasn't a four runner that skidded off a somewhat icy main road the other night and brought down a wall outside our local radio station the other night. So much for handling winter roads, though perhaps slowing down and paying attention might do a better job of that 🤷

[quote NellyJames]@Midlandsmum42, find me a non 4x4 car with a third row of seats that are designed to be up permanently and still leave boot space. I genuinely couldn’t find any.[/quote]
My dad had a Pug 505 estate when I was growing up. Massive estate car, 3 full rows of seats and a massive boot. For some reason they stopped making them.

They’re very rare now. There’s one for sale here though.

www.carandclassic.co.uk/auctions/1982-peugeot-505-gr-estate-Z8qNvg

We have two DC and try to be as environmentally friendly as possible. I want to have as minimal impact on this planet as i realistically can.

And seems to be a correlation on here at least between those that have 2+ children and 4x4 ownership so guessing that people with big fuck off cars generally not too concerned with environment anyway.

The worst drivers always end up with 4x4s! I think they like that when they crash it'll be someone else that gets hurt.

@PattyPan, I’m not denying the impact it has. I just find the whole argument where people say 2 is adequate, ridiculous and arbitrary. Who’s to say 2 is the magic number? Why not 1 or 3 or say none for a generation? It is generally because there’s this bizarre notion that 2 children is just right especially if you have one of each. I always wanted 3 whether I had one of each or not. The number of people who were bewildered that I was having a third after one was each was startling. We had a few very personal reasons for wanting 3, we could afford them and they have made me feel happy and complete. Having children, any children, is inherently selfish anyway. I’m bringing them up to be good people well aware of their surroundings and privilege in the world. If you chose not to have any children for the sake of the planet then I applaud your sacrifice, I’m not that selfless. But those that stop at two, saying three is irresponsible when they really only wanted two anyway don’t illicit any praise from me. I’ll just continue to do as much as I can whilst still trying to enjoy what short time we have here.

@Midlandsmum42

We have two DC and try to be as environmentally friendly as possible. I want to have as minimal impact on this planet as i realistically can.

So perhaps then you'd have been better off titling your thread along the lines of 'How can we encourage those with large vehicles who do not need them to drive more environmentally friendly options' But that wouldn't have produced quite as much goady click baiting for you I suspect

[quote NellyJames]@PattyPan, I’m not denying the impact it has. I just find the whole argument where people say 2 is adequate, ridiculous and arbitrary. Who’s to say 2 is the magic number? Why not 1 or 3 or say none for a generation? It is generally because there’s this bizarre notion that 2 children is just right especially if you have one of each. I always wanted 3 whether I had one of each or not. The number of people who were bewildered that I was having a third after one was each was startling. We had a few very personal reasons for wanting 3, we could afford them and they have made me feel happy and complete. Having children, any children, is inherently selfish anyway. I’m bringing them up to be good people well aware of their surroundings and privilege in the world. If you chose not to have any children for the sake of the planet then I applaud your sacrifice, I’m not that selfless. But those that stop at two, saying three is irresponsible when they really only wanted two anyway don’t illicit any praise from me. I’ll just continue to do as much as I can whilst still trying to enjoy what short time we have here.[/quote]
It’s because 2 replace their parents so not increasing the headcount for that generation beyond what was there before.