to not understand the obsession with 4x4s

[Midlandsmum42]

I really don't understand why there are so many 4x4s on the road in cities and the country, half of the parents have them on the school run (when there was a school run). They are so bad for the environment and too big and unnecessary. They weren't needed in the past and aren't needed now. Completely understand why a farmer needs one or someone on construction sites but driving kids to school!!!

@DicklessWonder The average dog has a bigger carbon footprint over their lifetime than a SUV.

Do you have a source for that? I had no idea dogs were such high polluters, must be the meat I suppose. There are so many of them as well so seems odd that SUVs could be the seventh largest cause of carbon emissions and dogs not get mentioned

My friend is an engineer for JLR and he says the vast majority of their models aren't fit to be driven off road or in poor conditions, they are built to be status symbols as that is now their key demographic.

Your friend might want to have a quiet word with the nationwide network of land rover off road driving centres which give you a half day of driving through all sorts, free with every car you buy from them

It must be excruciatingly embarrassing for them when people turn up in their cars only to find the majority of them aren’t able to cope with the mud and have to go straight home

We have had lots of examples of people with horse boxes and even boats they transport. I didn't know so many people have horses. The housing estates in the local town must a horse in each garden. You live and learn!!!

Or they keep them on livery yards

There are approximately 374000 horse owning households in Britain. It’s not beyond the realms of the imagination that some of those people on your housing estate own horses 🤷‍♀️

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/number-uk-riders-horse-numbers-drop-major-survey-reveals-690369/amp

Roads are very poor here so something with huge wheels is a massive benefit, with all the mud on the roads here 4x4 is great. I really like the driving position too, nice and high up with great visibility.

Higher up makes getting kids in and out of their car seats much easier on my back. The large boot that doesn't have any kind of lip or edge is much easier to get the pram in and out of as well as fitting both pram and shopping.
Incidentally mine isn't a 4x4 but probably is the kind of suv thing you're referring to. It's also a hybrid so isn't a gas guzzler.

@PinkSpring

Ours is a SUV and a 4x4 - as others have said - not all SUV's are 4x4 - so are people objecting to the SUV's or the fact some are 4x4?!

We purchased ours secondhand when it was a couple of years old and it was the only one we could find which was the spec and model we wanted - the fact it was a 4x4 wasn't really important to us!

We chose our car because it's safe for our family - which was a top priority. It also has tons of space, a huge boot, it's got a higher driving position. We live rurally and it's brilliant on the roads in any condition.

I really don't get the issue with people choosing whatever car they want. Before this car, we had a sports car - I am sure people had issues with that as well!!

I have both

(Ironically I tend to keep the SUV in 2WD and the sports car has permanent AWD. The sports car guzzles fuel which makes the SUV seem economical. SUV is 10 years old, sports car 15, so at least I’ve saved on the environmental costs of replacing them each 3-5 times each. I’ll keep both until they die.

[quote PattyPan]**@DicklessWonder* The average dog has a bigger carbon footprint over their lifetime than a SUV.*

Do you have a source for that? I had no idea dogs were such high polluters, must be the meat I suppose. There are so many of them as well so seems odd that SUVs could be the seventh largest cause of carbon emissions and dogs not get mentioned [/quote]
Google has loads of articles. I believe there have been several studies over the years.

phys.org/news/2009-11-dogs-larger-carbon-footprint-suv.html

Starlight86

Higher up, safer, more space. simple

Urban 4x4s, are 25% more likely to be involved in an accident than saloon cars, 27% more likely to be at fault if involved in an accident; and pedestrians are 2x likely to die if hit by one.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/4x4-debate-enemy-people-6097423.html

@CakeRequired

Got to question why people need to be high up to drive? If you're struggling to see, maybe you just shouldn't be driving?

That's quite scary.

It's not about struggling to see. I also drive an old, low Saab 900 and can see fine in that, but the higher seating position of my 4x4 means that I can see even more. Is that a hard concept to grasp, or are you just being deliberately obtuse?

@SSW101

I cannot understand the gas guzzlers you see running idle at the school gates. Do they think once their children are safely entombed in the vehicle they are not breathing in the particles from all the other cars on the road as they drive? Also, from an environmental standpoint it's the equivalent of building a time machine to harm your grandchildren.

It's such an unnecessary purchase. If you can't afford an electric/hybrid SUV but still want your kids to have a future where they too can happily choose to have kids then buy a smaller vehicle

This ^ is spot on

Speaking as someone who lives near a school, in non-covid times I witness an utter shambles every bloody day because so many of the women (and sorry it is mostly women) at the wheel of these things simply cannot drive them properly. Some of them can barely see over the steering wheel.

If you aren't capable of manouevring the thing because it's so large, then you really shouldn't be driving one. It might be safe for your kids inside, but you are fucking lethal to everybody else.

It's amazing, I didn't realise that the vast majority lived in the country and only had access to a main road via a dirt track that is often flooded!!

Don't want to speak on behalf of the OP, but I imagine they were referring to all the 4x4 drivers in cities, that are often seen with a single person driving and without 3 baby seats in the back.

It lets me sneer down on the low and poor people
(is that they type of reply you wanted?)

@larrythelizard

Higher up, more space and also mine is a PHEV so not a gas guzzler! I LOVE it!

Hope you don't mind me asking, but what car do you have? I'm looking at getting a PHEV SUV.

You'll see my 4x4 in the city on the school run because I have to drive there from the country...

I've got a Defender because

• our road becomes a death trap in ice and I like the ability to have the 4x4 if needed
• its easier to lob the dogs / hay nets / general horse shit in the back of that because its a metal cage and far easier to clean than when I had a freelander.
• its substantially safer. I was in an accident and driven off the road down a huge embankment. I flipped 3 times, totaled my land-rover, bent the chassis, crumpled the bonnet and stopped only when I smashed into a tree trunk. I climbed out with minor injuries thank god and I put that down to the vehicle I was in.
• being high up means I have way better visibility
• being big and bulky means idiotic drivers take me more seriously when deciding whether to cut me up
• it tows the horsebox
• its drives over the fields in most weather

I with PP though. My truck is covered in mud (proper globs of mud) so no one would ever mistake it as unnecessary. i could get a Ford Ranger or the like I suppose but its land-rover or nowt in this house

There are loads on our schoolrun, mostly owned by people who wouldn't dream of driving them anywhere they might actually get muddy. Most of the parking for the school is off-road on mud/uneven ground, and half of the 4x4 owners would rather block the road than get their wheels dirty.

We live in a tiny village and a couple of the lanes round here are barely used, due to being impassable for anything but the hardiest of off-road vehicles. The local farmer is the only person in the village with a 4x4, and he only uses it for work, and for navigating those lanes, and switches to a tiny Fiat to drive anywhere else, as big cars are a pain down the single-track roads. Everyone just has winter tyres on ordinary cars.

Hope you don't mind me asking, but what car do you have? I'm looking at getting a PHEV SUV.

Mitsubishi Outlander is the only PHEV SUV isn’t it?

I’ve got one. It’s massive and powerful and has fantastic visibility and is safe. I used low range the other day to tow a woman out who had ditched her people carrier sliding on ice (🙄) and in deep snow and ice I ferry elderly to various places in a local charitable scheme. It’s brilliant. I do have lots of animals as well so it’s very handy and spacious.

@DicklessWonder

And let’s not forget the massive impact the production and electricity production for electric cars has on the environment.

And those who change their cars every 3 years regardless.

Our EV was second hand.

The batteries (car is comprised of multiple small battery cells) can get reused in domestic batteries once their useful life as a car battery is over (in domestic battery walls). They don’t die entirely, they just get less efficient over time. We will keep ours as long as it goes and software functions (memory chips etc can be replaced).

Apart from the batteries, the environmental cost of building an EV is no different to any other car.

Our car could be refitted with new battery cells, keeping the same chassis and being upgraded for years to come. We use fewer tyres/brake pads because of regenerative braking.

The software is updated via wifi regularly giving new and improved features so you get a new car regularly.

It needs barely any servicing - just replaced wipers so far. It costs very little to charge compared to petrol cars and can be refuelled in a tight spot by plugging into a wall socket in your house or anywhere. In a power cut, we have used it as a giant battery on our drive to charge our phones!

If you charge at home on a 100% green tariff then you are being as green as you can! We are going to install our own solar and home batteries so our car is powered by the sun for free (well, free of ongoing costs beyond capital investment).

It is a superior vehicle in all ways, the drive experience is fantastic and we cannot fault it. Me and car mad DP will never go back to ICE cars!

I know EVs are pricey but so are Chelsea Tractors so that isn’t the only barrier!

We also looked at a hybrid estate as we need room for two big dogs and moving stuff about - our tesla has more boot space with rear seats down than an estate!

Also plenty of room for three adults in the back!

Mines a small SUV not a 4x4 and I love it, I got it for the high safety rating in order to protect my son and my niece/nephews, and for the extra space with it. I love driving it and it's a very comfortable car. It's handy when it comes to visiting family up north as it can fit loads in it and have enough space for people to feel comfortable.

@DicklessWonder

Hope you don't mind me asking, but what car do you have? I'm looking at getting a PHEV SUV.

Mitsubishi Outlander is the only PHEV SUV isn’t it?

I think Volvo, BMW and Audi also do a PHEV SUV?

DicklessWonder (Ironically I tend to keep the SUV in 2WD and the sports car has permanent AWD. The sports car guzzles fuel which makes the SUV seem economical. SUV is 10 years old, sports car 15, so at least I’ve saved on the environmental costs of replacing them each 3-5 times each. I’ll keep both until they die.

Same here! And this is a good point thats often overlooked in the drive towards small cars being more "environmentally friendly". Larger cars tend to be the more luxurious, prestige makes, which go on for longer and have better resale value. I have a 19 year old petrol 4 x 4, bought for £1400 a year ago which has just sailed through its MOT. It really is an excellent car. Far more resources are used in manufacturing an entire new car every 7 or 8 years than producing one car which goes on for 20 or 25 years. And theres a lot of them about.

It is a superior vehicle in all ways, the drive experience is fantastic and we cannot fault it. Me and car mad DP will never go back to ICE cars!

Once they manage to sort out range I’ll look at them. The Tesla that’s closest to my 10 year old runs-like-a-dream SUV is about 4 times the cost. I’d want Elon Musk to give me a ticket to the moon for that.

And I want one that sounds like a Lamborghini.