To feel sad Debenhams is going?

[CrotchBurn]

Don't know why but it just makes me feel nostalgic
www.bbc.com/news/business-55793411

I live in Cumbria. There's nothing left here in terms of department stores! Carlisle had HoF - gone. Kendal had an indie one - went bust last year. There's one in Whitehaven but that's about it (also a pain to get to unless you live W Lakes). I used to get the train up to Glasgow but that big Debenhams has now gone, as has the one in Preston. We also lost a M&S in the area not so long ago. Guess I'll have to trek to Liverpool or the Metro Centre...Debenhams was one of the few places to get decent DD+ bras so I will miss it, and I feel very sorry for all of the staff. It was also cheaper than John Lewis and did better sales, which is very handy when you start your career and need smart clothes for not much money!

@ErrolTheDragon

Boots stock a larger range of cosmetics and fragrance than Debenhams. It’s likely they will step up now the competition has gone.

It’s specifically those “provincial towns and smaller cities” where Boots expands their in-store offerings - eg Worcester has makeup counters for MAC, nars, bare minerals, too faced, laura mercier, ysl, fenty etc and a wide selection of fragrance. Boots doesn’t do this in stores within major cities.

When they launched The Ordinary in store, the locations were all outside of major cities.

A while ago there was some talk of JL opening a store in Preston. In these times I suppose it's too much to hope they might take over the Debenhams space - it's in a great location for serving a large region right next to the station.

MAC stores are actually doing really badly too - even before the pandemic hit - and they've started selling their stuff in Boots now so I don't think it's long until they get rid of their standalone stores too.

I think younger generations don't mind buying make up online - if you think about Kylie Jenner and Kim KW their make up is sold mostly online (Kylie's was in Topshop for a bit, don't know about Kim's) and other online and even indie brands like ColourPop etc sell mostly or exclusively online.

I really hope John Lewis survives. I've done most of my online shopping from them during the pandemic - they're not that much more expensive than Amazon and the website is a million times better (better laid out, measurements clearly laid out etc, quality).

And I think M&S might make it as pp said due to underwear and food. Also they've done some very clever stuff in terms of IP with their food eg Colin, Percy etc that now have value.

Boots stock a larger range of cosmetics and fragrance than Debenhams. It’s likely they will step up now the competition has gone.

Oh, Boots is fine but it really is the only such place now in many towns, not the long list of big city alternatives.
It's the various clothing franchises which are more problematic- what's the betting some of those are pushed over the edge by this too?

@umpteennamechanges

I'm just looking at their Winter sale and you can't filter by size?

Pretty basic oversight...

Really? It's the second filter that comes up on the desktop website.

Arnotts in Penrith still open?

I have to say that I buy all my make up online via specialist sites like Cult Beauty.

Even perfume I buy online as I tend to buy sets of more boutique/unusual testers at places like The Perfume Society and buy a whole bottle online if I love one of them.

To be honest, this is the way the world is going and it's adapt or die.

Retailers, Councils and planners need to be much more forward looking and innovative about how to manage high streets.

From now on either high streets will become areas to shop for people uncomfortable with online shopping (a reducing population) or they need to become a destination.

The kind of place you want to mooch around for the day - cafe culture, outdoor seating, attractive spaces and buildings, shops that offer genuinely awesome customer experiences, etc.

I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did. Even when a new branch opened, as happened in a local town, once you got over the initial veneer, it was a mishmash. The words dull, dowdy and always disappointing sum it up.

Just realised I'd incorrectly said House of Fraser in Nottingham was closed. Must get out more!

I’m sad for the horrendous job losses, many in specialist retail roles that they will struggle to find again.

I’m sad for the soon to be vacant enormous stores that will sit empty on high streets around the country. These can’t be swept under the rug like a small unit can be. They are huge spaces, many as anchor stores in shopping centres which will probably never be tenanted again. It’s a sad day for the retail landscape as a whole.

As for the brand itself, they didn’t innovate and as a result got left behind. House of Fraser will be next.

I really wanted them to outlast Frasers/Mike Ashley and be the last man standing in the High Street department store game.

They survived so much, struggled in after being crippled by private equity ownership. It really shows how destructive that model of ownership can be and how badly that area needs more regulation.

It’s disgusting that viable businesses can be loaded down with crippling debt and hard working organisations left struggling long after some fly by nights have run off laughing with all their easy cash.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Debenhams because my first saturday job was there.
When I was a kid in the 1980s, the Debenhams in our local town seemed huge. It had a bridal department, furniture, soft furnishings like curtains, a hairdresser and a cafe.
Gradually it just became clothes and make up, and then in a really horrific "refit" several years ago a large part became sports direct. It looked like an unfinished warehouse.

I think they used to be a middle of the road type shop (not super cheap but not as expensive as JL) then they started with so called "designer" stuff but had a sale 11 months of the year which meant it was clear that none of the stuff was worth its full price.

I have to say as a (untrendy) short-arse though, the DP section was handy for jeans! I'm glad I bought a few pairs at the end of last year.

I feel sad about not only all the job losses from the stores but there will be a massive impact on manufacturing and the supply chains who made their products. For a supply chain its feasible a company as big as Debenhams would have been their biggest, if not only customer.

Also as well as leaving a hole in the high street its another shop that older, maybe not regular internet shoppers will lose. My MIL used to shop in Debenhams fairly regularly and meet a friend there for lunch/coffee (pre covid of course). She bought skincare and clothes there but neither she or her friend can use the internet. FIL does, but hes very wary of buying stuff online.

I’m sorry for the staff. But l never went in. It was full of just awful clothes.

There was a high street analyst on tv the other day, saying that Covid has just speeded up what was happening on the declining high street, and one of the problems was that all town centres were the same with the same shops.

I never buy in shops, l buy everything online, and this l think is the future. Small interesting independent retailers should be in town centres not dreary chains. Some fashion shops can maintain an online and high street presence atm because they are offering more interesting stuff, like Zara or the H and M group.

But DP, Topshop, Wallis, Debenhams all just blurred into one. As did Warehouse. There was no individuality or USP, they all looked the same.

I am quite able to shop online and buy all sorts online, but clothes I like to try on. I am short and the petite ranges vary hugely from shop to shop some don't seem petite at all And some places don't even offer free returns so you end up paying postage for stuff you don't even want.

Problem is, there's more nostalgia than actual shopping going on.

I think that too many of the retailers looked at the London branches with their footfall and never once visited the provinces. P

My local branch was drab, disorganized and expensive (as you'd expect with it's overheads) and like M&S clothing, just couldn't decide on who it was selling too.

You can't place all of the blame on Amazon for this. The expansion of supermarkets (home, clothing, electrical). The move of other retailers to free parking out of town locations.

The internet driving the price down whilst the high street shops never seemed to take steps to lower overheads (shrinking units down) which resulted in their prices always being higher than out of town or internet retailers.

The lack of love for some city centres. Mine is a dump. There is absolutely no reason to go there even at the best of times.

As it happens, I can see some of the names returning to the high street somewhere down the line but without the millstone of the current rents around their necks.

It is quite telling that upthread somebody remarked that the Debenhams beauty hall was good “but I never bought anything there”.

Somebody else noted that they wanted department stores to be a luxury experience ‘like Fortnum and Mason used to be’, where clothes are wrapped in tissue paper and handed over reverently, after which the assistant is required to give heartfelt thanks to the customer for shopping in the store. Then bow her out of the door, presumably. However, the same poster complains that department store cafes are too expensive. So luxury service on the cheap is what she wants.

No wonder traditional department stores are struggling!

I'm going to miss our local debenhams (Bristol store). It was well laid out and close to the bus station (I live out of town).
I'm short of arse and huge of bosom. It was a big enough store to carry enough stock in a good variety of sizes. It was one of the few places I could buy H cup bras off the rack (most supermarkets only stock up to a G). I also liked the Mantaray and Maine brands as they had a lot of cotton items.
I think the writing on the wall was when the store suffered a broken window and it took months to get it replaced. Then some of the concessions left and were replaced with sale racks (these were in addition to the randomly placed sale items throughout the store ).
I do have fond memories of the store- looking for a wedding dress, buying linens for my first home, getting my ears pierced.

Next are expanding their beauty halls and may take over some of Debenham’s role outside of the biggest cities.

I'm sad for people losing their jobs and the demise of the department store is the end of an era.

Has to be said, though, that Debenhams has been naff for decades. Long predating COVID and the internet even. I remember as a teenager thinking it was just tired and a bit lame. And for the past ten years or so its really been on its uppers.

@NotMeNoNo

Our Debenhams in Nottingham is a really prominent listed building, it's awful to think of it going but it was another under invested building, a warren of buildings knocked together with dusty corners and staircases everywhere. I expect the way the business was financed took funds out of it. John Lewis is the last department store standing, House of Fraser, big Co op, Alders, now Debenhams gone. I'm sorry about the people who work there too. It should have been a great 21st century shop.

Beautiful exterior but ridiculous interior. Dark, on about fifteen levels, half-storeys, ramps, steps, dead-ends. When our kids were small, the baby department was somehow on its own, up half a flight of stairs with no access for prams of wheelchairs!

House of Fraser is still clinging on in the Victoria Centre. Yes, the Co-Op shut, but that was about 20 years ago!!

YANBU to be nostalgic and sad for the people who lose their jobs, but Debenhams has been shit for at least 10 years, if not 15. They've had it coming a while.

John Lewis is now the only decent department store left, and I suspect they'll do ok for the time being with another competitor gone.

@MrsMoastyToasty the Bristol Debenhams was the only one I ever liked! It actually felt light and modern. I was a student in Bristol 20 years ago, I think that's the last time Debenhams was properly 'good'.

@Hollyhead...it last had a major overhaul in the eighties when they did major structural work. Apart from that all they had done was update the flooring and the display stands. It never stood a chance when there is free parking at Cribbs Causeway, which their former neighbour John Lewis relocated to.

@ErrolTheDragon they had a mini-Liverpool One planned out for Preston a good few years back, with JL as the pivotal store. IIRC, JL pulled out and the whole thing got scrapped. So they put in some weird pavements without crossings and went down the different route with the shops. Seems to be working out OK for them. People have a lot of bad things to say about Preston but it's weathered the storm reasonably well.