To be sad that relative has unwittingly bequeathed money to the government in her will?

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

A close elderly relative of mine has recently died and I discovered that, in her will, she has left several thousand pounds vaguely specified as to "the x-city paramedics" (in her area). She decided to do this because she was very grateful at how skillfully and kindly they treated her husband shortly before he died almost 20 years ago. They did indeed help and treat him very well at the time, but nothing out of the ordinary for the (wonderful) job that they would normally do.

Now, I fully realise that it was her will and that she was entirely at liberty to do this - could have left them everything, if she'd so desired. However, she had mental health problems throughout her life, which made 'her world' very small indeed. She had a sharp grasp on domestic economics, but no idea how national economics works; and I really don't think she would have had a clue what would happen to the money in reality.

Obviously, the paramedics working there now are very unlikely to be the same ones who treated her husband; not that this necessarily changes the principle of wanting to show her appreciation to the service and employees in general - and, of course, she had no idea how much longer she herself would live.

It's just that the reality of what is most probably going to happen is that the executor will send the money to the city's hospital (one of the biggest in Europe), giving the reason for her wishes, they will send a brief note saying thank you and then it will disappear into their £1bn+ budget. The paramedics - neither those who treated her husband nor those working there currently - will probably never even know about the money (maybe get a one-line email telling them that a previous patient they never knew said thanks), much less benefit from it; and it will practically make no difference whatsoever to the hospital's budget.

She was always extremely careful with her money, accounted for every penny she spent in notebooks and chose to live frugally, although she was always very generous to her family. Effectively, she's handed quite a big chunk of her money to the government, where it will be added to a balance sheet and be instantly forgotten about.

If she had found a small, local, independent medical-based charity to leave it to, they could have done so much with it. The NHS is (overall) an amazing organisation, but it is not a charity - it's run like a business and is already paid for by the taxpayer to the tune of (IIRC) well over £100bn every year.

Again, it's none of my business really and 100% her money, her choice; but AIBU to think she wouldn't have made this decision if she'd understood what she was actually doing? She would have scoffed with derision if anybody had ventured to suggest that she leave an amount of her life's assets 'to the government' - but other than semantically, she's basically done just that.

I'm reminded of this case (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23739598) where another elderly person left her entire estate to 'the government'.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but it is a case of what is done, is done now.
With hindsight, a gift at the time - be that for something like a defib., or a donation to the Air Ambulance or some such, or one of the charities that support people with his particular condition (British Heart Foundation or Stroke Association or whatever it might be, would perhaps have been more logical, but, it is what it is now.

Your relative gave money to an organisation that saves lives instead of to her family who would probably spend it on a holiday, material possession or an extension on their house. How on earth is that unreasonable?! I'd be proud to be her relative.

My trust has a charity for donations so it won’t necessarily get lost.

Whomever drew up the Will should have advised her to be more specific, but maybe they did and that's how she wanted it. It's not your business really so forget about it.

I think (not an expert!) that paramedics are employed by the ambulance service, not the hospital, so hopefully the donation will be gratefully received by the blue-light service, which may approximate to what your relative wanted.

She passed away feeling good that she’d left money to something important to her so if it gave her some peace to do that then it isn’t money lost.
I imagine there is a specific pot for how charitable donations are spent and either way extra money for the NHS isn’t a bad thing. Not like it’s going to pay for Boris’s works Christmas party.

YANBU to feel the way you do, obviously you are saddened by your relative's death and also you naturally feel she's been a bit naïve in how she's chosen to leave her money, proper will drafting is something that requires proper professional advice and support to ensure the money arrives at its actual intended destination, and it doesn't sound like that's what happened here.

That being said, I am not sure you need totally despair that her generous bequest will totally be 'wasted' or swallowed in general administrative costs (also, not really on topic but it's far from universally agreed that the NHS is massively 'wasteful', of course on a micro level there is waste as there is in any large organisation but on a global scale the NHS gives pretty good results for the investment made, other European nations for interest spend far more per head of population/% of GDP on healthcare than we do and don't get much, if any, better results. So you could actually argue that every penny spent in the NHS makes more of a difference than elsewhere). Also, I don't think it's necessarily true that had she left the money to a 'small, local' charity that much more good would come of it, small charities can be a bit of a lottery especially in terms of research, money can genuinely be wasted due to lack of scale, lack of resources to direct or manage the money appropriately, duplication of effort with other small charities etc etc. Often if small charities want to fund truly important, scaled research (e.g. in cancer trials), their only opportunity is to band together with larger charities or several other smaller ones to have the wherewithal to properly assess what research proposals have the best chance of success (which requires a great deal of expertise in itself) and then to give enough money to make that actually happen - but then of course there's always the risk that the money given to the particular charity for research in XYZ very niche area either sits unspent or gets diverted elsewhere...

Also, if this gives you comfort, I am 100% not an expert on the legalities, but when I worked in the NHS bequests to hospital trusts generally did not go into the general budget, they would be managed by the hospital's charitable fund which funded all manner of things that wouldn't have been approved/funded from the main budget, such as refurbishment of patient areas or relatives rooms, funding of new equipment, additional therapists for things like play therapy for children, and staff welfare initiatives - which sounds like exactly the sort of thing your relative would have wanted done with the money? I don't know about ambulance trusts but they appear to have charities too, see LAS example, so maybe the same will happen with your relative's bequest? Can you check with the executor of the will?

You seem very certain that this was a misguided choice and that some other choice would have been better. I'm not so sure, certainly after reading the posts above. What she will have got satisfaction out of is that she believed in doing something to help people who'd helped her and she tried to do that. She's dead now and won't know any different. And I can think of far worse things to do with your money even if it did just go to the Trust's overall budget.

Your relative gave money to an organisation that saves lives instead of to her family who would probably spend it on a holiday, material possession or an extension on their house. How on earth is that unreasonable?! I'd be proud to be her relative.

I completely take your point, but I don't see why it has to be either/or. I'm not bemoaning the 'loss' of the money from the family - just that it could have gone to something like (as suggested above) the local Air Ambulance, which is a charity that does amazing work and to whom the money would have made a difference.

If she'd understood that, I'm certain she would have done the same. She heard voices in her head, believing that it was a mutual hotline between her and the local chief constable (who may have existed/may not/may have retired 40 years previously).

Once, there was a crime case on the TV where they had had an untraceable call from a man giving his name as 'Steve' (or whatever common name it was) and they were desperate to speak to him again. She had recently read a story in the local paper about a man called Steve, so she was convinced it must be him - and doubtless 'told' them who their man was (by shouting in her living room).

She likely believed that her 'friend' in the police had personally called out his 999 colleagues in the paramedics when she shouted to him (and not when a neighbour phoned 999) - and that they were the only paramedics in the large city. She wouldn't have had any idea of the national/regional scale of the operation - she quite possibly thought the money would go directly to the individual paramedics and that they could all spend it on something nice for their families.

Yup this money shouldn't find its way to the hospital. It should be directed to the ambulance service. Eg if she lived in the East of England region, it would find its way here...
www.eastamb.nhs.uk/about-us/charitable-fund.htm
And as you can see the money would be put to good use and probably in a way that your relative would approve of.

I mean count your blessing OP, I get it's frustrating, absolutely. but if she was that mentally unwell/vulnerable it could have been far far worse. My late father (we found out after he died) had been giving an untold amount of cash to a local drug addicted homeless lady, we don't think there was a sexual relationship there, he probably imagined they were friends and he was helping her out of poverty but I'm sure every penny of it went to her dealer/pimp . Thank god his solicitor recognised he'd lost capacity by that point or he could quite feasibly have left her a chunk of cash in his will too and that would have been disastrous all round not least for her as I'm sure she would have been further exploited because of it.

Not trying to play 'grief' top trumps here but at least you know that in the very worst case scenario your relatives money will be spent on a universal healthcare system that treats the poor and vulnerable, so some good will come of it, yes perhaps she won't be personally remembered or acknowledged by name or the money given to particular individuals she was thinking of, but does that really matter that much? You and your family remember her, and you know she intended the very best by her donation even if she didn't quite have the know-how to direct the money properly, but it was a very kind gesture nonetheless. Isn't it how she's remembered by her loved ones the most important thing, the intentions not the consequences at the end of the day?

I think (not an expert!) that paramedics are employed by the ambulance service, not the hospital, so hopefully the donation will be gratefully received by the blue-light service, which may approximate to what your relative wanted.

I really hope that is what happens - that would indeed be in the spirit of what she would have wanted.

Thanks, folks - a lot of good points and interesting views.

As for the will, it was drawn up by a proper solicitor; however, if the solicitors asked her to be more specific (as I'm sure they would have), she would have most likely insisted that they were being obtuse, raised her voice and just repeated "It's for the paramedics!" and that 'the paramedics' would remember them and know what to do - and if they had any queries, they could just ask her believed contact in the police.

I don't agree that it's none of my business at all. She was my loved one - I organised her funeral and, although she'd always refused to discuss it (thought it was unlucky to do so) and left no instructions, I spent a lot of time trying to make it exactly as I believed she would have approved and a most fitting tribute to her life. I most definitely didn't just say "Well, she's dead now, so she won't know, so who cares?" I cared about her personal legacy and I also care about her financial legacy.

I do take the point of PPs, though, that she believed it was going towards helping and showing gratitude, so whether it does or doesn't turn out that way, the intention was still fulfilled in a sense.

Ooh, maxelly, that sounds terrible

Her small world was partially limited by her mental and physical abilities, so at least she couldn't really have got into circumstances like that - although she was once scammed by 'tarmac your driveway' cowboys who came to her door and did a careless, useless job.

Hi OP, previous posters are correct and if it's specific enough it would go to the local ambulance Trust. E.g. north east ambulance Trust. The trusts are responsible for their own finances under the general umbrella of the NHS, and within that (as for example in the Trust I work for) money donated to charity is put into a specific charity fund (separate from the main money they use the run the hospital) and even more specific can be set up as a particular fund. It has to be kept separate for tax/accountancy reasons. So that way the fund itself would be used for a specific purpose which you/executors could specify if you wanted to. The money is usually specifically used for the additional benefit of patient/staff/to buy more nice to have things as opposed to paying for bills/things NHS money normally funds within a specific budget. You could write to the charity and they would be able to tell you what the money gets used for. I think its a lovely thing they chose to do and I'm sure that it can make a big difference. Depending on what they gave it could be things like refurbishing a break room or supporting training for staff that the NHS budget doesn't always stretch to. Hope that helps :)

Thanks so much, DarcyJack - and others. It appears that I was very mistaken in my rationalisation and I'm overjoyed to have been proven very wrong! My family member did have a lot of mental health and real-world comprehension issues, but it appears that she either knowingly or accidentally/serendipitously got this one completely on the money (so to speak).

I've had a little look online and there is indeed a hypothecated charitable trust for her local ambulance service, providing equipment for patients and the ambulances, which actually runs on a surprisingly (and disappointingly) tiny budget - based on their figures for last year, my relative's donation will be equivalent to almost 20% of their annual income!

As it happens, I'm one of the executors (I didn't state it clearly as I didn't want to sway anybody's opinions based on that), although we haven't set the ball rolling on probate yet - it's a task for next week.

I feel a bit foolish for having asked this misguided question, but am delighted to now know that, once we've got it all sorted, her bequest can and will make a huge difference of exactly the kind that she wished.

Thank you all very much again

Aww thanks to you too. It sounds like things were tough. Believe me, I know what it's like to try and preserve the personal and financial integrity of someone who totally lacks any insight into their (lack of) ability to do it themselves and resents any help or suggestions as 'interference' , 'impudence' etc. The struggle is real!

And I totally get that (despite the somewhat grubby inferences from some posters) you really want to look after their finances to keep them comfortable while alive and carry through their intentions after they die, its not about wanting the money for yourself (I think anyone with a seriously mentally unwell parent gives up their expectations of a big inheritance early anyway)... and why should an unwell person be any less entitled to that than anyone else?

My poor old Dad was an intelligent, well educated man before his own mental health and addiction issues had their impact (although always notably lacking in 'common sense' at the best of times) so it was very hard for him to see himself as anything other than always and absolutely right in all instances. It led to some very poor decision making I can tell you, and he would absolutely brook no interference whatsoever. The one comfort I can give you is that it is a lot easier from a distance to remember the loved-one's good inherent qualities (e.g. my Dad's kind intentions to the drug addict) of the person than the more difficult or hurtful consequences of their illness (and/or their less attractive personal qualities such as pig head stubbornness!). So really I would try (and I know its not easy) not to dwell on this and try and focus on your happier memories of her. I'm sure the funeral was a really fitting tribute to her and her life, far more so than any monetary gift in any case. All the very best to you OP

I am also an executor and my dad left large charitable bequests to organisations that he truly wouldnt recognise now. His will was made a long time ago. Dealing with his exact bequest vs. what he really wanted is quite a dilemma. I am lucky in that the other beneficiaries are supportive in how I deal with this. But it is tricky, not black and white. Surprisingly, and hearing about how charities are happy to go to court on stuff really annoys me.

Personally I'd be finding the local paramedics and seeing if they have any facilities that could use improving.

Ping pong table/decent little kitchen in the posts where they wait on shift.

I couldn't see anyone arguing that wasn't the wording and spirit of the intention.

A gift to th people doing that role in th area

@DarcyJack

Yup this money shouldn't find its way to the hospital. It should be directed to the ambulance service. Eg if she lived in the East of England region, it would find its way here... www.eastamb.nhs.uk/about-us/charitable-fund.htm And as you can see the money would be put to good use and probably in a way that your relative would approve of.

This is what I thought too.

The executor should make sure it goes to your relative's local Ambulance Trust, into the charitable donations pot.

Thank you so much, maxelly - I really do appreciate your lovely, kind and very helpful words

Sinful8

Now, that is an excellent idea - thank you. I think I will be doing that when the money is all 'cleared' and ready to be donated.

@spongedog Surprisingly, and hearing about how charities are happy to go to court on stuff really annoys me.

My DF's solicitors have let him put a clause in his will that goes to the effect of 'if any charities I've left money to start going to court they lose their money and it can go to the other charities'

You shouldn't feel foolish.
It isn't a situation many of us have to deal with very often, if at all, and you will feel you want to be sure to get it right and to make a good job of it.
You've asked, and found some information you didn't previously know.
I always maintain, if it is something you don't know about, then it can't be a foolish question.

I would feel sad about the death of your relative rather than this unsolvable, relatively minor bequest which will go to the entirely deserving and needed health service.

Most people in those types of jobs have some sort of a benevolent fund where money goes to people who are having a difficult financial time eg. paramedics unable to work through illness, family members of deceased paramedics etc also probably within the Spirit of the will.