to watch Anne Frank on tv tonight and think.....

[ImsorryWilson]

there are worse things than pandemics.

Not exactly a novel thought but still.....

@MissBaskinIfYoureNasty I didn't read the OP as making a comparison - a reflection on the past, and an historical imagining of that past, in relation to the difficult circumstances we all find ourselves in at the moment is quite a powerful thing to do.

Indeed, thinking with my historical imagination is giving me a greater sense of understanding my parents' experiences - and reflecting on the small blessings of my ordinary life at the moment. That helps me cope with this situation day by day.

I find these posts are normally written by people for whom Covid has been a nuisance more than a disaster. They can’t see their friends, family or go the pub, kids are at home, they have to wear a mask etc.

Meanwhile there are people who have lost parents to Covid in the first wave (I know one) or who are suicidal (know two people who’ve made attempts).

I don’t think posts like this are helpful. We all know AF and her tragic story. The constant comparisons to WW2 to try and make out the people of today aren’t as resilient are quite offensive.

Why is it always WW2 anyway? There are girls being married off to old men in Pakistan, girls being trafficked from Eastern Europe to work in brothels, children working the land to survive because their parents have died from AIDS in Uganda, tiny children being abused and neglected in filthy homes and not receiving an education in England. This is all happening either now.

@Tellmetruth4 I get what you're saying. I've actually been thinking that I could argue that lockdown and Covid aren't the worst things I myself have been through either, as a victim of childhood SA years ago. But that's a pointless comparison too. Its impact has been damaging for my DDs, and thinking that I've had it worse is irrelevant for them.

But I don't think that's what the OP was meaning. She was reflecting on things whilst watching Anne Frank's story on TV, a girl who in the diary is recounting her experience of being under a different kind of lockdown and hating it as a teenager. Bear in mind that at that point she hadn't been taken to a concentration camp or died too young; she was a teenager missing her old life.

I don’t think posts like this are helpful. We all know AF and her tragic story. The constant comparisons to WW2 to try and make out the people of today aren’t as resilient are quite offensive

@Tellmetruth4 I don't think it's this comparison at all (although my father lost his father in WWII, when my father was 11, so I'm not sure what your argument re losing parents to C-19 is doing there ...)

For me, it helps to look back and think about how ordinary people coped in the UK for 5 years with often higher levels of privation & danger, to think about ways they coped about restrictions and just the utter dreariness of the feeling of endless everyday struggle, and learn from that.

Your point about the other atrocities that are going on all over the world, as we speak, is an excellent one. But I could then say back to you that, then any complaints people in the UK have about their current situations - where most of us (NB: not all, obviously) are reasonably well-fed, reasonably well-housed, reasonably safe, any complaints we have - in the light of international conditions - are unreasonable.

It doesn't make me feel better to think that there are people more miserable than I am. People getting abused, people getting mutilated, people caring for beloved family members with degenerative diseases, people in slavery, people in famine, people with painful illnesses, homeless people- none of these make me feel better about being a relatively rich, privileged person, whose problems are mostly to do with loneliness, personal betrayal, worry about climate destruction, arthritis, and insomnia.

@QueenoftheAir I also think of the plague and how people then must have felt that life would never get back to normal or move forwards.“

Been reading a book about the Black Death in the 14th Century. That the people had no idea what was causing it so no chance of fighting it is a terrifying idea.

Thanks for all the replies.

Two points:

Firstly, there are some emotions that are only good/healthy if they are spontaneous and not forced. A putting of one's own situation into perspective is one. Gratitude is another. Compassion too. Occasionally you experience these feelings but you cannot be made to - it just happens. They are fleeting feelings and cannot be passed on in a lecture. So I totally get why people are sick of being TOLD to feel their problems are smaller.

Point taken about the victims of DV and sexual abuse also.

@ImsorryWilson this has been an interesting thread (and when I'm feeling up to it, I'll watch the Anne Frank programme - thanks for the tip off).

For me, it's not one or the other - I can be weary, low, angry, and frustrated at the current situtaion, and still appreciate my fortunate life - to be well-fed, clothed & housed. Neither cancels the other. We are capable of feeling two conflicting things. Sometimes, it's knowledge & understanding that comes out of that contradiction! I think that's what I mean by perspective.

This is where folk tales & fairy stories (fiction in general, perhaps?) can be useful. I'm thinking a lot of "Sleeping Beauty." She led a charmed life. The worst thing to happen to her was that she pricked her finger on a needle at the age of 16. And that caused the whole kingdom to shut down.

For me, that story is about the paradox - how that was the worst thing that happened to her, but for most us us, pricking our finger (or the like) is a trivial everyday experience.

@Tellmetruth4

The sad fact is that we are not as resilient. What made world war 2 Britain so resilient was that everyone pulled together. It was a very united front. Today's society is too selfish and entitled to be as resilient as it was in World war 2.

@BloggersBlog

I agree with you in the main op with one huge difference. They could touch their loved ones and I think a lot of the fear and worry could be somewhat alleviated with being able to hug and kiss families. We can't. But yes, on the whole we are so much luckier than she and millions of others were

Is this a joke? Families were separated in the concentration camps. And Anne Frank was hardly able to visit and hug her other friends and relatives while in hiding. The household was literally confined to a set of small quarters and able to see no one else.

I get what the OP is saying. It's not about telling everyone they should feel lucky, or ignoring the very real suffering of people in horrendous circumstances right now (in households where there is DV and SA for example), but about acknowledging that most of us are still pretty privileged in comparison to many throughout history.

I am miserable because of lockdown, but I acknowledge that I am still pretty fortunate in the greater scheme of things, and sometimes it's good to have that perspective. There are definitely plenty of worse things than pandemics, and the Holocaust and WWII was certainly one of them.

I have a doll next to my bed that my paternal grandma gave me for my first birthday. She was 83 when I was born and died when I was 9, and I never got to know her well.

But she lived through such a lot, and remained indomitable.

Her husband went off to fight in WW1.
She lost three of her ten children, one of whom had severe spina bifida, and this was at a time with no NHS.
Spanish flu.
Gave birth at 43.
Then WW2 came along. Her grown-up sons and sons-in-law went off to fight, her two youngest were evacuated. She went to work in a munitions factory. Her daughter was bombed out and moved in with her, with her grandson. And there was rationing, etc.

When I get bogged down with all this, I look at my doll, Alice (named after her) and think, well, Gran, if you could do it, I can.

@ImsorryWilson

Thanks for all the replies.

Two points:

Firstly, there are some emotions that are only good/healthy if they are spontaneous and not forced. A putting of one's own situation into perspective is one. Gratitude is another. Compassion too. Occasionally you experience these feelings but you cannot be made to - it just happens. They are fleeting feelings and cannot be passed on in a lecture. So I totally get why people are sick of being TOLD to feel their problems are smaller.

Point taken about the victims of DV and sexual abuse also.

That was a very nice follow up post OP

The trouble is, there have been a lot of posts on various threads from (mostly) people living comfortably with their families in nice homes with secure jobs, going on about how those living in less than ideal conditions who've lost their jobs and have mental health problems should be grateful. It actually reminds me a lot of when I was in school, and once a year the head would show us photos from her long summer holiday to South America or SE Asia and lecture us students on how privileged we were because she'd seen people living in extreme poverty

So posts about others having bigger problems tend to rub people the wrong way at the moment, because it's easy to read them all with the same supercilious tone. But if people find it helpful for themselves to make comparisons with history and think about others who've gone through worse, then I'm glad it helps - whatever gets people through, quite frankly!

[quote Fieldofyellowflowers]@Tellmetruth4

The sad fact is that we are not as resilient. What made world war 2 Britain so resilient was that everyone pulled together. It was a very united front. Today's society is too selfish and entitled to be as resilient as it was in World war 2.[/quote]
WW2 was a fight against an easily identified enemy - the Germans (not "Nazis" - Germans). Racism was more acceptable then than it is now, therefore it was easy for the government to mobilise people against a bunch of foreigners than it would be today. Add in the fact that the Germans were actively invading other countries and killing people, it was an easy sell.

Society does not accept racism anymore. (Think about Covid-19 - even calling it "the China virus" is deemed offensive!) Whenever there is a war, a large number of people protest against it - we shouldn't get involved in other countries' affairs, we should respect their culture and their decisions (even if it means killing).

Resilience comes from a common outlook. By definition, tolerance and acceptance of different culture means there is no common outlook - there are many different ones. If people are not working toward a common goal, resilience is lost (why should I do my bit if someone else isn't doing their bit?).

I'm not saying racism and intolerance are better, obviously. But you can't have everything - a resilient nation is an intolerant one. Which are the most resilient nations in the world today? China. Russia. North Korea. Hardly regimes that are tolerant or inclusive in their outlook.

Every should also remember that the people that hid Anne Frank were breaking the law, and the people that killed her were obeying the law.

Why is why I really have very little time for people who slavishly follow "the law".

Society does not accept racism anymore. (Think about Covid-19 - even calling it "the China virus" is deemed offensive!)

I think this phrase has become particularly offensive mostly because it was used by Trump in an attempt to escape his own responsibility for losing control of the pandemic leading to 400,000 American deaths. (He was also overlooking the fact that the virus came to the US via Europe not China.)

I don't think it raises anyones spirits to focus on Misery- their own or anyone elses.

Of course there are 'worse things'. There are also worse things that what Anne Frank went through. But the thing is, suffering isn't a competition. You don't suddenly feel better about your own situation because someone had it worse decades before you. We know it's not the worst thing in the world. We know that we're lucky to have the ability to stay at home, in this age of internet, and keep warm.

But there are still very difficult challenges. With home schooling, not being able to see people, no activities. It's tough!

And while what Anne Frank went through was of course horrific and should never, ever have happened (like many atrocities of war!) it's not fair to dismiss what people are going through now.

There's no comparison really and I also don't think it's really relevant or helpful to compare. People's struggles are their struggles - they are real for them.

What a beautiful story @LunaNorth - thanks for telling us about your grandmother.

Thank you,

I didn’t know this was on so I’ve set up a series link.

So far I'm identifying with the mum and her panic attacks. bloody awful and worse to think about now as a parent.

I think that some people cope better than others with not seeing family and friends, and with having to stay in and abide with all the rules to keep everyone safe.
It is difficult and some days are better than others for everyone.
It’s not a competition to see who is the best at coping with this pandemic!!! We will all cope differently with different aspects of it, and we will all cope differently because we all have different home and work circumstances.
None of us have had to cope with a pandemic before, if there was one in ten years time, it would be a different ball game altogether!!
Hopefully, there never will be any thing of this magnitude ever again, but if there was, people and governments would have learned valuable lessons from this one and act appropriately and much faster than now.
We all only see things from our own perspective, because that’s human nature, it really is hard at times to not get worried/upset/angry with this situation and take it out on others who we perceive are having an easier time of things at the moment.( I include myself in this).
I can’t get worked up about no baby clubs etc because I don’t have a baby anymore, but for mums and babies this is very important to them.
It’s all relative to our own individual circumstances, new mum’s probably can’t understand the pressures of people home schooling kids whilst working if they don’t have school aged kids and are working from home.
I think we all want to howl at the moon at times, have a good swear at anyone who’s brave enough to listen to us, and have a damn good cry...then pick ourselves up and get on with our lives as best we can.
Hopefully, the end is in sight and we can return to our own personal and individual “normal” lives.
I wouldn’t wish any of this on any one and am so sorry for everyone who has lost a family member or friend to this virus, their lives will never be the same again, whilst the rest of us who haven’t lost anyone will be able to eventually return to normal.
This isn’t a competition for who is or isn’t coping, but is an awful time, that we all hope will soon end.

I haven't seen the Anne Frank programme on TV but did want to suggest the Anne Frank episode of the History Chicks podcast if anyone is interested in finding out more about her life and the publication of her diary. Really interesting but so, so sad.

@lockedownloretta

Yes
YOU are the most annoying thing about the pandemic

you are clearly doing ok then.