to think that some non-religious parents over-react just a teensy-weensy bit when their children are exposed to religion in the most benign form?

[SueBarooeeooeeooooo]

s'ok if I am. But threads complaining about this sort of thing are a regular MN feature, and I can't help thinking that some parents seem tremendously precious about it. We're Christians and it often comes up that not everyone believes the way we do, and I talk to my children about it and they wander off and scribble on the lounge walls again.

I've seen people complaining about Christian mums and tots groups, simple 'thankyou' prayers and christian charities. I am 100% ok with you bringing your children up atheist, theist, or chocolate-worshipping. Honestly, if I whipped myself up into a panic over every mention of different beliefs or none that my children encounter, I'd never get anything done.

(Please note, this is not a church schools whinge, I'm against selection on religious grounds.)

Right, know it's not morning, but my morning just didn't happen. [ill emoticon]

Anyway, take me as you find me. I had a chat with one of the elders wives this morning, and she explained the way the church understands it. The key texts for them are 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 2 (which is what I thought they'd be), and the reason the 'women elders' thing just doesn't really come on their radar is because their whole viewpoint is that the service of an elder is that of a married man and his wife.

You can be pernickety about why it isn't 'a woman and her husband', but that's not going to change the substance of it. It might be old-fashioned in set up, but that because it's a) a hang over from the last couple of centuries when the constitution of the church was set up and b) the church really does try and stay as close as possible to the instructions laid out in scripture, because they believe them to be the very Word of God.

So calling the wife of an elder an elder also wouldn't change the substance of things and would just be a cosmetic exercise.

waits for a barrage of question about single people's right to be elders... oy vey...

Hi justa- thanks for your comments- this is a grat discussion- love it. The one on steiner education is good too- I'm new to all this so not sure how you find things- but I started a thread on called leaving steiner waldorf education, and joined one on steiner and other alternative forms of ed. I'd love anyones views on Steiner education' cos they're a quasi religious cult- Anthroposophy is the core of their curriculum- and some people compare them to scientology. They are VERY secretive and shifty about ti- and try not to let on about it- just sell the alternative ed bit. There's an article in last tuesdays guardian Ed supplemnt praising Steiner and it REALLY gets me that NO-ONE ever mentions anthroposophy or the occult stuff and the press always do positive things about it. Sorry to go off on a tangent.....

oh sorry you don't have to answer if it is too identifying!

"And with You" Justa

Really sorry, have been doing silly RL things and not following, and actually realized while out that it was horribly tactless to ask 'from where', which might get people into trouble.
REALLY SORRY JUSTABOUT.
MN a bit like AA, no?

Northern, I think the Guardian did a profile of Steiner. Think it was the G. It certainly mentioned the anthroposophy bit (ie. asked a few teachers do you believe in aliens (is it aliens? can't quite remember)
you can search the guardian archive at www.guardianunlimited.co.uk but if I get a chance i'll look it up for you.
I had been considering it as an option (well, if we had the money which we don't) until this article!!

been great talking with you justabout. [and all on this thread actually]

Yes, I'll be offline this weekend, actually. Haven't actually been online much today anyway, but thanks for the chat, and have a good weekend yourselves

ditto

Was just looking back through the thread, to confirm my feeling that Justabout's self-examination/assertion of her beliefs has been critical and very interesting, and that I've often not questioned her in the detail that I've liked because the thread moves on so quickly and RL gets in the way.

So cheers, Justa.

But I also discovered (v quick skim) that there were loads of points that a)I wished I'd interrogated at the time b)applauded c)been retrospectively horrified by!

So I might, if time allows, dredge up the past. Okay?

how long have you been on mn onebat?
there is always another opportunity to revisit your views and air your opinions.
you are also allowed to change your mind

yeeees very true.
But nevertheless, this has been a ...detailed thread.
and people have gone to some trouble to respond in, well, detail.
I have at times felt that this is the kind of discussion that I have nearly had with some of my smarter friends but then don't want to offend/doubt my capacity these days/can't be arsed/decide they're not actually that smart.

So I might stick with it, even if ha haah! I end up being the Lone Poster.
How fabulous would that be? Arguing with myself in cyberspace for all eternity.

Yes, turned into a good 'un instead of a 'here we go again'.

BTW onebat... if halloween is over, if you're going to do seasonal names you should probably be OneBangAndAShowerOfSparksMother by now.

I really need to change my name to something more imaginative and seasonably malleable!

This was a fab thread - sad it seems to be coming to an end. Let's start another one!

I'm still hoping to continue this thread, but know I won't have time over the w/e to go back thru thread and ask the qu's/fire the flamethrower at the posts that I missed! \

Still staggering from Justa's double oxon first bombshell.

Will check in, but if it dies by Monday I'll think very hard for a while, then fire off a new thread with all my smartarse thoughts.

EM I tried OOOoohbadmother but it didn't seem to fly. Bit of a damp squib. Still slightly intimidated by harpsi's sparkly new name. I do love my crap mum puns.

And I've grown strangely accustomed to onebat so I might just keep it, even though it will probably give a slightly more.. wiccan..impression than I'd like.

A onebat is obviously a very rare Antipodean marsupial!

Has anyone ever asked a Minister to justify the Christian bias emphasis can't think of the right word-- in non church schools? I think I might dash off a quick letter the the DFES (or whatever it's called now and see what Lord Adonis's minions say.

Justa- yes the not of this planet thing is right- I also have a friend who's kids are still at the school and realised we were travelling on parallel tracks when she told me she sees fairies and water sprites. I'm never sure if the teacherrs are anthroposophists- they're certainly required to attend weekly anthro meetings and their reading list has required anthro reading. The fact they're so evasive and shifty and never answer quetions openly made me wonder.
Onebat - thanks for the Guardian link- I'll have alook- it'd be good to see if anyone mentions it.

I have been absolutely astonished to see that some people on here (website not specifically this thread) think that we have a seperation of church and state... that is America.

We are a Christian country, we have a state religion, the monarch is defender of the faith. That is why there is a Christian "bias".

Now one can debate whether this should be the case, but that is the why of it.

it really isn't quite that simple.
there isn't a Christian bias in the provision of other services, e.g. some hospitals don't show a preference for treating practising Christians over non-religious people. there isn't a Christian bias in the provision of health services, in fact one would be astonished if a doctor talked about Christianity in the delivery of his or her professional duties.
and the NHS is every bit as much a part of this Christian state as the education system