to think that some non-religious parents over-react just a teensy-weensy bit when their children are exposed to religion in the most benign form?

[SueBarooeeooeeooooo]

s'ok if I am. But threads complaining about this sort of thing are a regular MN feature, and I can't help thinking that some parents seem tremendously precious about it. We're Christians and it often comes up that not everyone believes the way we do, and I talk to my children about it and they wander off and scribble on the lounge walls again.

I've seen people complaining about Christian mums and tots groups, simple 'thankyou' prayers and christian charities. I am 100% ok with you bringing your children up atheist, theist, or chocolate-worshipping. Honestly, if I whipped myself up into a panic over every mention of different beliefs or none that my children encounter, I'd never get anything done.

(Please note, this is not a church schools whinge, I'm against selection on religious grounds.)

really lol Sue! but TELL ME PLEASE that star wars not a metaphor for ..

onebat, oh no, Star Wars is a pantheistic fable. One of my pagan friends is married to a Jedi, actually.

Now, Lord of the Rings...

Good grief just googled and apparently there are theses on this very subject.
And I thought I was fairly well informed about ludicrous phd topics..

What has happened to this thread? Incursion by the Dark Side and people with firsts being called morons....[huffs, the majority of my household have firsts and PhDs]

I've got barely a GCSE to my name. But my name is Wiley Coyote, super-genius..

Although as one whose dissertation was a feminisht reading of mills and boon romances I would be delighted to hear more about the pantheistic fable...

feminisht? tho actually scarily appropriate, looking at my recycling bin...

Has this becomae a 'firsts' club while I've been away? I was supposed to get one, then I discovered alcohol, boys, the Fabulous Poodles deep fried mars bars and the Union.

then you must leave, Seeker.

It really gets me too when teachers tell kids GOD STUFF. Our kids went to a community primary school- very small village where 3 of the 4 teachers were BORN AGAIN christians.Three stories here- three true stories of many-
At Easter- one made them write Dear Mummy and Daddy, Happy Easter , Jesus is alive- daughter one questioned it- Jewish Grandparents too- no- she was FORCED to write it- aged 8.
Another teacher told them that "All Muslims are stupid because they don't beleive in the same god as us"
Friend's child was never allowed to write his full, double barrelled name- so his Mum said one day- his name is actually Jon Smith Brown because he takes both our surnammes as we're not married- the teacher replied that we are a christian country and they should be married- I think at that point I would have.... no, won't say it. Anyway - we moved thm soon after, but to a Steiner school where we had a probably worsr time- but I've written stuff about that earlir.....

Sorry seeker..actually since you've been away we've been through misogyny and Star Wars, as well as Firsts.

northernrefugee - you could have sued on this. Seriously.

northernrefugee, what a bunch of unprofessional odd-bods.

Onebat, Star Wars posits a 'Force' running through and undergirding everything in the Universe. It is not a personal being, and may be manipulated or tapped into by anyone, for any purpose.

Jedis use the force for good, and follow a sort of semi-Zen approach, practising detachment and rejecting passion to try and have pure motives.

Sith beliefs use the force in a way that feeds on hate, anger, greed, and so on.

The Star Wars films are basically Quasi-Zen & Fate fables I love 'em.

ok feel better now.

Aaaanyways. feel responsible for definite shift towards silliness and notice that serious UnquietDad has dropped us. So back to the OP.

How do you feel, Suebarooi'lljustgrabmylightsabre, about the issue now?

Seeker? Seeeeeker?

Sorry - had to deal with simultaneously incredibly complicated and extremely boring PTA matter on the phone. Where are we? I'm not really very knowlegable about Star Wars, but I know a scary amount about Star Trek. And I agree that Sue should be fighting for the right to be an Elder whether she wants to be one or not. And I think that really, we should all, regardless of personal faith, be campaigning for schools to be completely secular places. Not moral deserts, not value neutral, but secular.

Onebat, well, I can truly understand the frustration of parents whose children have been put into a situation where they were practically forced to join in a religious observance. I'd be bloody ticked off too.

I have nothing but sympathy for parents who are dealing with the fudged up mess that is selection by religion in state-funded schools, and I disagree with the 'compulsory' Christian act of worship in secular schools.

I've stated my position before now about religious involvement in schools - I think it should be what it was when churches first set schools up - for the charitable purpose of providing an education, because Christians believe in education. Not for providing little exclusive religious clubs and promoting a specific belief.

However, I still think it's unrealistic to expect that no-one is ever going to share something with your children that you disagree with, and maybe strongly. I've had everything from people talking about 'the niggy-nogs' to my children, all the way down to a Catholic woman encouraging them to pray to Mother Mary.

The racist things, I get my knickers in a twist about. The other belief stuff, well, it's just something else to talk about because it wasn't a belief founded in something utterly abhorrent (like another human being denied their humanity) it was a gentle motherly encouragement.

I'm writing a book here...

The Force? It's a metaphor for gaffa tape, you foolish minions - you know, the stuff that's got a dark side and a light side and holds the universe together... [hgrin].

SUebaroo: if racism is another human being being denied their humanity (which I entirely agree with) why does sexism not matter to you? Because it's the same thing: denying people their full human status.

lol, yes, madamez has just reminded me that might not be the issue you meant...

lol gaffa tape madamez. it actually does hold my universe together, what with me being crap with a drill and all, like all feminists.

suebangbangbangooo it was the issue i meant.

Seeker, yes to all. Though about star trek.

It's an interesting question, though. I don't think I'm denied my full humanity by not being an elder.

It's just such a hypothetical, really, which is why I've not managed to get as worked up about it as others have. It just reminds me of 'Loretta' in the Peoples Front of Judea of Python fame asking for the right, as a man, to have babies. So they agree that, even though he can't have babies, he can have the right to have babies.

So, at my church, no woman wants to be an elder, and they are all quite happily convinced of the bible teaching about male elders. But I'm going to go along and convince them that even though they don't want to be elders, they can have the right to want to be elders.

Oh, I know it's not very radical of me, but it just seems a bit... Daily Mail baiting.

and madamez, absolutely - see my racism post last night.