To think this is discrimination or at least unfair?

[Sweet666]

So today the manager at work told us we can only speak English unless we are explaining the work... not allowed to chat basically except in English. So people who can talk good English are allowed to have chats all day but if you can't speak English then you're not allowed to have a chat. I think this is wrong and unfair. Why should you have to be silent all day if you can't speak English but if you are English or speak good English then you're allowed to chat as much as you want?
4

[rosiejaune]

Would they be complaining if deaf employees were using sign language to communicate?

Nationality and ethnicity are protected characteristics too.

Of course it's discrimination, even if most people here are xenophobic (and have forgotten that their ancestors were immigrants too).

I don't want the UK to be made up of people who look, dress, and sound the same. I'm glad people are retaining their native languages, and not everyone (especially if they are older, and are largely immersed in their own community) finds it easy to learn a new language.

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

Honestly I think if you live and work in a country then you learn the language and when working you speak that language. Its disrespectful not to. I wouldn't get a job in, say, Poland and then get the arseache because I was asked to speak Polish while working. Its just basic courtesy.

Except they are allowed to talk in Romanian or Polish for work and they are group according to nationality, it's just for chats they aren't allowed.

So how does that fit your view?

[changingmine]

Hoppinggreen it is breathtakingly racist and the fact that it fits your narrative says a lot about you.

[changingmine]

Interesting how all the posters who think it's fine and acceptable are English speakers. Do any of you listen to other people when they speak? Instead of just mouthing off? The OP thinks it's unfair and discriminatory. It's hurtful. Listen when people share rather than just talking over them (in your own language) you might learn. Try to be less xenophobic and small minded. Try to empathise with people whose lives have not been as cosseted as yours, who have had to flee or relocate from homelands because of impossible living situations, who did not have the luxury of English lessons to prepare them for this, who are confined to roles beneath their skill sets, who miss their families and culture, who are doing the grunt work so that you in your white English world can continue to live your pampered little lives. It costs you nothing and would make you a nicer person, and a whole lot of people's lives a teeny bit easier.

[Hoppinggreen]

@changingmine

Hoppinggreen it is breathtakingly racist and the fact that it fits your narrative says a lot about you.

I don’t have a “narrative” I have an opinion
I believe that if you live long term in any country, especially if you want to work there then you do need to learn the language. If you speak no English you will be disadvantaged and at risk of abuse. I have worked with women who are deliberately prevented from learning English so they had no escape route.

[Emeraldshamrock]

A group of Romanian women work in a group together - just them in a section of workers who are dividied by, what seems to be, nationality - and they can't chat because they aren't fluent in English Why are employees segregated into groups based on nationalities that seems odd itself. Why are they separated?
I find it hard to believe there isn't some polish or english within the romanian group and if there is maybe that is why it is unfair and if there is not why has the company created such a divide between employees.
Or can everyone sit where they like and create groups?

[Ylvamoon]

Interesting how all the posters who think it's fine and acceptable are English speakers

@changingmine - you can cross me off your list.
My first language is no English, I learned English while working in London. .. I learned Duch while working in Rotterdam - It never once crossed my mind that it's acceptable not to learn the local lingo.
It's a basic thing you need to do in order to communicate.
In my eyes, OP's colleagues come across as a bit precious. When in fact their employer is giving them the opportunity to learn English through chatting to each other.

[changingmine]

@Ylvamoon

Interesting how all the posters who think it's fine and acceptable are English speakers

*@changingmine* - you can cross me off your list.
My first language is no English, I learned English while working in London. .. I learned Duch while working in Rotterdam - It never once crossed my mind that it's acceptable not to learn the local lingo.
It's a basic thing you need to do in order to communicate.
In my eyes, OP's colleagues come across as a bit precious. When in fact their employer is giving them the opportunity to learn English through chatting to each other.

Except it's discriminatory as has been confirmed. Mean-spirited too.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

I am ankther one whose first language isn't English. Theoretically not even second. And I agree that if someone works somewhere and lives somewhere they should make an effort to learn the local language at least on basic level.

Except it's discriminatory as has been confirmed. Mean-spirited too.
It hasn't been confirmed untill ET or EAT says so. There is not enough case law for us on mumsnet to be able to say whether it is or isn't discrimination. We can THINK it, but it's not "confirmed".

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

And I agree with pps that the segregation by nationality is plain weird.

[TonMoulin]

@changingmine, I’m not BRITISH either and English is not my first language.
I would not and never have spoken my language at work UNLESS that was the reason I have been hired - eg to talk to a French speaking customer.
Like everyone else I learnt ‘on the job’ so to speak, by trying j’y best to understand what’s others were telling me and trying to explain my ideas to them. There is no other way of learning.

[deragod]

^^When I worked in a restaurant chain, this rule was in place too. It was because there was a number of people who worked there from eastern Europe, and sometimes you ended up being the only english/english speaking person on a shift.

As someone else posted above, it was more about exclusion than anything else. There were times when I used to feel very left out and paranoid as they would speak in their home language and I had no idea what they were saying. They did not bother speaking to me in english.


Eeastern Europe (whatever that means as usual use of this label has nothing to do with geography but everything with orientalisation and racialisation) is not a country, neither a language.

Oh, and judging by numbers of Brits in Poland who dont speak polish I dont think you would be bothered at all.

[Marmite27]

Years ago I worked in a call centre with a high percentage of speakers of a different language.

It was found out that they were being disrespectful towards non-speakers in their language (sexualised comments about women in particular). There was a decree from above, that unless you were speaking to a customer on a recorded line who needed your additional language, all communication was to be in English, with no exceptions.

From being on the other end of these horrible comments, I’ll forever be suspicious of people in a default English speaking workplace using a different language. It was very intimidating.

Everyone in my situation could speak English or they couldn’t do the job.

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@SchrodingersImmigrant

And I agree with pps that the segregation by nationality is plain weird.

Very weird.

The cynic in me suspects it was done by design and there's segregation at job level/type and wage too.

What also makes me suspicious is that the company knowingly hired people that didn't speak English and that talking in their native language is ok as long as it's for work. So the English demand is not for health and safety, or communication , or to avoid misunderstandings.

It's just the casual chat that has been moved to English, and that effectively bans some of the people from talking unless it's work related.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

Makes you wonder what happens to, I don't know, a Slovak or German or Italian person getting a job there. I am EE but I don't understand Polish, nor Romanian. Would I be working in a team if 1?🙈

[LastTrainEast]

@Sweet666

You say first language but what if he didn't speak any English? Then he should just never talk all day? This is where my problem is

How would you do the job properly if you couldn't speak English? How could you communicate with the rest of the team?

In many cases speaking the language would be a requirement as reasonable as expecting a librarian to be able to read.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

Honestly, I think someone complained about bitching from some group in their language. It's possible it was even member of that language group (I did once have to thoroughly tell a person off for trying to botch in our language).

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

@LastTrainEast except they were hired despite not knowing any English ,or very little. So obviously it wasn't a requirement.

The job sounds low skilled,manual and repetitive in some kind of factory. Putting caps on a bottle.

[changingmine]

[quote TonMoulin]@changingmine, I’m not BRITISH either and English is not my first language.
I would not and never have spoken my language at work UNLESS that was the reason I have been hired - eg to talk to a French speaking customer.
Like everyone else I learnt ‘on the job’ so to speak, by trying j’y best to understand what’s others were telling me and trying to explain my ideas to them. There is no other way of learning.[/quote]
Now you can learn to type without CAPITALS

[TonMoulin]

And you can avoid sneering. But to try and add something to the discussion instead.

My iPad autocorrect BRITISH in capital letters. I can’t be bothered to correct that every time.

[compulsiveliar2019]

Personally I think if you are living and working in the uk then you should speak in English and be working towards being fluent in English. If I'm honest I think it should be a requirement before coming here. And I believe that of moving to any country not just the uk.
I also think that generally speaking if you are at work then conversations and work should also be in language of the country you are living/working in.
In my first job after school I was working as a care worker with two South African ladies who both spoke in their native language. They were both fluent in English but chose to exclude me (we were a team of 3) and the client from their conversations. It felt extremely rude and out of fear of being called racist I didn't speak up about it.

[Calmandmeasured1]

@Sweet666

You say first language but what if he didn't speak any English? Then he should just never talk all day? This is where my problem is
How the heck does someone manage to land a job in an English speaking country without being able to speak any English?

How would they produce an adequate c.v. or get through the interview process?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

How the heck does someone manage to land a job in an English speaking country without being able to speak any English?

As I said earlier. Agencies and hefty fees.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

Which btw again opens people to horrible exploitation. I helped on a website for certain expats living in UK so I kept on top of these news. I heard stories from whose passports were confiscated by the "agency". I was finding information for people who needed to get back to our country with no money and no papers. Or people who were charged by agency and left at the airport.

I also know a woman, girl basically at the time, who isn't from EU but is from Europe, who was promised cleaning job and ended up being trafficked in fir sex. She run when she realised, afraid to talk to UK agencies, she just spent years on fake papers, because if she went back they would find her as she owed them money for the "travel to uk and finding job"

No matter how shitty it sounds, I am very much for demands of basic level of language, everywhere, in every country, because it allows the people to approach someone for help. Or don't fall into these schemes.