To think this is discrimination or at least unfair?

[Sweet666]

So today the manager at work told us we can only speak English unless we are explaining the work... not allowed to chat basically except in English. So people who can talk good English are allowed to have chats all day but if you can't speak English then you're not allowed to have a chat. I think this is wrong and unfair. Why should you have to be silent all day if you can't speak English but if you are English or speak good English then you're allowed to chat as much as you want?
4

[Marchitectmummy]

@LakeGeneva

Well to them I would say they should learn Arabic

You might say it but it means fuck all. As an English speaking person you can go where the fuck you like and speak English and you won't be required to do otherwise or be threatened with losing your job as a result. Health and safety/cultural niceties notwithstanding, it doesn't matter a damn.

But somehow it's different in the UK?

Your point isn't valid, the person wants assistance as to whether it is considered as discrimination in England, not in Dubai. The OP can hardly quote a fantasy situation in another country to HR in England!

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@Sirzy

It sounds like they need to mix the groups up if their aim is to stop segregation. Sounds very bizzare grouping employees like that in the first place

Yeah. I don't know, is that normal practice in some workplaces?

[Mittens030869]

* My opinion would change if they were in Wales and forbidden to speak Welsh, for instance- although OPs later posts indicate this isn't the case!*

I think that would definitely be discrimination in
Wales and the employers wouldn’t get away with it. Welsh is an official language there, every signpost is written in both English and Welsh.

In the OP’s scenario, though, I see no issue. I spent a year in France when doing my degree and I wanted to speak in French.

[NoOneOwnsTheRainbow]

@SchrodingersImmigrant

How did they rent a house, catch a bus, get a NINO, open a bank account etc?

Agency with hefty charges

I had no idea you could hire an agency to help you catch a bus.
Seriously, though, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to have some phrases of at least one main language when you go to a new country. Sad that people are getting screwed for not knowing it.
I do think a PPs suggestion that the employer should put English lessons on is a good one though. Or pair up employees to learn from each other. I learned some half-decent Polish working in the kitchen at a McDonald's in Scotland.

[AngeloMysterioso]

You say first language but what if he didn't speak any English? Then he should just never talk all day? This is where my problem is

If I went to live in Spain, and got a job in Spain, one of my first priorities would be to learn Spanish.

[Covidcorvid]

I come across quite a lot of Eastern Europe women in my job, a lot of whom don’t speak much English even though they’ve lived and worked here years. They have to bring friends to appointments to translate/use language line. They all work in factories, etc where they don’t have to speak English. I guess maybe if they hadn’t been allowed to speak their own language maybe they would have learned English....which long term is going to benefit them. 🤷‍♀️

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

It sounds like they need to mix the groups up if their aim is to stop segregation

Yes, that's an approach which can work, except you sometimes get "waaahhh, my friends are over there and it's not faaaiiirrr"

Since OP's not mentioned the type of work we can't know, but rather than managers arranging things with everyone "in their own groups" it may be that they've gravitated that way themselves

Which isn't necessarily helpful either

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

@NoOneOwnsTheRainbow they show you which one and how. Some organise lifts with other stuff. Apparently.
As much as I understand why people want to go somewhere and work and make living, the fact that they go somewhere where they have 0 language skills is incredibly risky. This is what the modern slavers make money on. And the people don't know how to get help because they don't know how to ask for it and are scared.
B1 isn't ground breaking level, but it can be extremely beneficial. Probably even A2 would suffice

[NoOneOwnsTheRainbow]

You might say it but it means fuck all. As an English speaking person you can go where the fuck you like and speak English and you won't be required to do otherwise or be threatened with losing your job as a result. Health and safety/cultural niceties notwithstanding, it doesn't matter a damn.
@LakeGeneva In most countries you have to learn at least some of the target language. Dubai is a special exception as only 20% of the people in Dubai are native to UAE so it would make no sense for Arabic to be mandated when a lot of workers there are from India where English is taught alongside their 800 or so other languages and dialects.

[LakeGeneva]

Your point isn't valid, the person wants assistance as to whether it is considered as discrimination in England, not in Dubai.

Just pointing out the double standard. If you want to ignore the double standard and make out like it's some kind of global requirement that everyone in the world only converses in the language of whichever country they're in, crack on. It's not true though. Language requirements are all to do with global class considerations.

[Viviennemary]

It seems harsh but I can see the reasoning behind it. People speaking a different language can be divisive and lead to bullying.

[Aprilx]

@LakeGeneva

Your point isn't valid, the person wants assistance as to whether it is considered as discrimination in England, not in Dubai.

Just pointing out the double standard. If you want to ignore the double standard and make out like it's some kind of global requirement that everyone in the world only converses in the language of whichever country they're in, crack on. It's not true though. Language requirements are all to do with global class considerations.

It isn’t a double standard though. It is merely that different organisations have different rules. If an organisation in Dubai wants to insist only Arabic is spoken and their discrimination laws permit it then they can.

[LakeGeneva]

If I went to live in Spain, and got a job in Spain, one of my first priorities would be to learn Spanish.

Well that's great, but you wouldn't have to at the level of working the op is talking about.

[yetmorenamechanging]

This is hilarious. I've lived and worked in countries that are not English-speaking. Native English speakers (all nationalities!) are some of the worst at thinking they can not bother learning the local language. I lived one place where people spoke English there for twenty years rather than learn the local language, thus forcing everybody around them to speak English. This person wasn't unique, I know others too, and she even spoke 3 European languages so was clearly not linguistically challenged!

Saying all that, I do think a common language is important for health and safety and team cohesion. And if you work and live in another country you need to make a concerted effort to learn the language.

If the management want everyone speaking English and know some can't at all, then they'd be better off introducing a way for people to learn on the job. These people were hired with little/no English and are now expected to speak it or stay silent. All day. All that does is create massive resentment, unnecessarily.

[TonMoulin]

As an English speaking person you can go where the fuck you like and speak English and you won't be required to do otherwise or be threatened with losing your job as a result.

You are very much mistaken. In any country where I've lived, not speaking english at work but the langage of that country was expected. The only time when speaking english was ok is if you were then speaking to someone in yet another country. Even more so if that work was at a lower level (which I am guessing is the case for the OP)

[LakeGeneva]

Native English speakers (all nationalities!) are some of the worst at thinking they can not bother learning the local language.

Yes! This is my experience also.

The English are notoriously crap at learning other languages. It's a known phenomenon.

Ok, so they don't have to, a lot of the time. But to then shit all over other people who do likewise is a bit much.

[NoOneOwnsTheRainbow]

@SchrodingersImmigrant that's a very disturbing situation to be in. I know there's no easy answer as I would be the first to defend anyone's right to live/work wherever they can get a job and want to live, but at the same time I agree it's ill-advised to go without the language. A2 would definitely be a good platform to build from. But if people keep clumping in groups with people who speak their language, they will never practice or learn. It suits the people keeping them in factories to stop them wanting to learn English I guess, so the fact that this employer wants everyone to speak English, suggests they want to help their employers develop their skills.

[TonMoulin]

I think it deopends in the environment @yetmorenamechanging.

Someone who is self employed/retired might be able to get away with speaking english only and forcing other people to do so.
In a workplace, lets say on the shop floor of a factory? NO WAY!

[TitsOot4Xmas]

@CrochetOrBust

Are you in a mainly English-speaking area? For example,, I’d think it was unfair if you were in a Welsh-speaking area and not allowed to speak Welsh at all.

It would actually be unlawful to prevent staff in Wales from speaking in Welsh.

[NoOneOwnsTheRainbow]

@LakeGeneva you are aware you're just punditing and generalizing at this point? If you hate all English speakers so much why are you on an English speaking forum speaking English?

[ElectraBlue]

Actually, it could be discrimination...

I can understand that business/work should be conducted in English and your employer is perfectly right to expect you to use the language in meetings, with customers and when in dealing with work situations in general .

But if your manager is implying that you can't have a bit friendly banter with your colleagues when you have a break for example, greet each other in the morning or during your lunch hour in a language you might share, then they are on very thin ground.

You are being treated differently/[penalised simply because of your background whish is automatically discriminatory.

[Marchitectmummy]

@LakeGeneva

Your point isn't valid, the person wants assistance as to whether it is considered as discrimination in England, not in Dubai.

Just pointing out the double standard. If you want to ignore the double standard and make out like it's some kind of global requirement that everyone in the world only converses in the language of whichever country they're in, crack on. It's not true though. Language requirements are all to do with global class considerations.

Nope - I am saying the rest of the globe is not relevant to the OPs question.

[StrictlyAFemaleFemale]

Well I speak a second language at work. But it took me a long time to get to being able to hold a conversation and I had 18 hours language tuition provided by the state for 3 years followed by a 3.5 yr degree. Immersion doesnt work for everyone. I cant grasp a new word unless I see it, so in a factory setup I would never learn. Sometimes if Im tired I cant quite formulate so I switch to English and everyone is ok with that. Learning another language and working is frankly exhausting and I dont think people get that unless youve tried it yourself. Oh and btw the conservatives cut all the efl classes years ago. So there is very little help to be had.

[LakeGeneva]

In any country where I've lived, not speaking english at work but the langage of that country was expected.

Ok, shall we country-off then?

I've lived and worked in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, South America and Central America.

In all of those places, I could have very easily got by with just speaking English. I know loads of people who did so, most of whom earned significantly more than people born there. I myself did not do that, but it was pretty normal.

[Marley20]

They can't enforce an English only rule during your breaks. During working time they can only enforce this rule if there is a strong business reason for doing so i.e. you work in a customer facing role and the customers usually speak in English or you're working in an area where health and safety is important and everyone needs to be able to hear and understand what others around them are saying. What kind of job do you have and what are the reasons given for this rule?