To think this is discrimination or at least unfair?

[Sweet666]

So today the manager at work told us we can only speak English unless we are explaining the work... not allowed to chat basically except in English. So people who can talk good English are allowed to have chats all day but if you can't speak English then you're not allowed to have a chat. I think this is wrong and unfair. Why should you have to be silent all day if you can't speak English but if you are English or speak good English then you're allowed to chat as much as you want?
4

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@Stompythedinosaur

You’re in the uk, our language is English so if you want to work here then you need to be able to speak it.
You can speak whatever language you want outside of work.

This is such a simplistic understanding of a more complex issue. I wonder how many people would say this if they had a better grasp of how it is to speak multiple languages?

My experience is that people who say things like this don't speak other languages at all, even when in that country.

Yes I agree. We speak mostly Chinese Mandarin and French. But even then while we switch between Chinese and French, we throw in the odd English words like OK, bye bye. Sometimes we will say English pronunciation of Chinese word for example, tycoon for tai kun.
Some expressions or cultural analogies have meanings that can only be expressed in one language. Similar to how “posh” English people tend to randomly spout French phrases “dejav vu” or Latin “caveat emptor” When they talk.

[caringcarer]

If you live in England it is not unreasonable to be asked to speak English. That is the official language of England. When I go on holiday to France I speak French because I am in France and their official language is French. I have to make the effort to learn the language before I go. If a person working in England can't speak a single word of English I would wonder how they had filled in the application form and got through an interview tbh. They need to make an effort to learn English. If they were to be able to chat in their own language there would be no incentive for ever learning English. YABVU.

[WineIsMyMainVice]

You seem to have written this post very well for someone who can’t speak English.

[SimonJT]

@WineIsMyMainVice

You seem to have written this post very well for someone who can’t speak English.

Where has the OP said they don’t speak English?

[Branleuse]

maybe theres been complaints that the Polish arent integrating with the English or that new staff that dont speak Polish are feeling unable to fit in. I imagine its been implemented for a reason, although I can definitely see how it would be annoying for you, but I dont think its discrinination

[Fi57]

@Stompythedinosaur

You’re in the uk, our language is English so if you want to work here then you need to be able to speak it.
You can speak whatever language you want outside of work.

This is such a simplistic understanding of a more complex issue. I wonder how many people would say this if they had a better grasp of how it is to speak multiple languages?

My experience is that people who say things like this don't speak other languages at all, even when in that country.

It’s not a complex issue and it’s not about speaking multiple languages either. It’s about working in a country that is foreign to you and not being able to speak the language.
Going to a foreign country for a holiday is not the same, I wouldn’t expect foreign tourists to be able to speak English.
And FYI I’m Scottish, my first language is English but I also speak Gaelic, french and Spanish ok.

[Crosstrainer]

Very much depends on the environment. As a general rule, it’s considered impolite to speak in a language that not everyone present can understand. I used to work with a lot of French people. The language of business was English and they all spoke English; meetings were in English. But, occasionally, they would have prolonged conversations in French. I’m sure this was just for their own ease, but it is potentially slightly uncomfortable for others, simply because you don’t know what is being said about what or whom. A balance probably needs to fe struck. A quick exchange in another language? Fair enough. But all day? It is arguably a bit exclusionary and not conducive to a good working environment.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

A quick exchange in another language? Fair enough. But all day? It is arguably a bit exclusionary and not conducive to a good working environment

Yes, and that's where the "justified business need" can come in
It's a complicated area and really isn't as simple as howling "discrimination!!" because someone would like to do other that what the employer's requested

[UrAWizHarry]

Obviously, for work-related things a common language has to be adopted.

However, if two people are just having a chat to themselves then why does it matter if that is in another language, if the people involved prefer to use something else? Seems overly controlling to dictate that every single thing uttered has to be in English.

[flowers08]

When I worked in a restaurant chain, this rule was in place too. It was because there was a number of people who worked there from eastern Europe, and sometimes you ended up being the only english/english speaking person on a shift.

As someone else posted above, it was more about exclusion than anything else. There were times when I used to feel very left out and paranoid as they would speak in their home language and I had no idea what they were saying. They did not bother speaking to me in english.

I don't think it is discriminatory particularly.

[ErickBroch]

People should RTFT! Op can of course speak and write in English. She has made it clear she works in some kind of factory-setting where a group of older women are now not allowed to talk to one another because they can't speak English fluently.

[ErickBroch]

The comments in this thread are like a flipping EDL network. A group of Romanian women work in a group together - just them in a section of workers who are dividied by, what seems to be, nationality - and they can't chat because they aren't fluent in English.

And the responses here are people saying 'our language is English so if you want to work here then you need to be able to speak it.' jfc

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

She said people, not just women?

[LetsBeSensible]

Yes there have been cases brought to court about this issue.
In the UK, Legally it is discrimination to tell people they can’t speak other languages.
You are entitled by law to speak any language, unless it is an issue of safety.
In fact this is “chat” in other languages which has been banned so it’s absolutely discrimination and absolutely illegal.

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

Maybe the employer should just ban chat to not have issue with discrimination then.


The cases brought to court show there can be a justification and not just "safety".

[MaLarkinn]

If you cant speak English then you shouldnt be in the job.

My boyfriends first language is not English and he will only speak English around me. If im with him and sometimes speaks to him in his language, he will answer in English. Its basic manners.

[Branleuse]

I speak french as much as poss when in france too, and if I was working over there, id expect to have to speak it full time. If you move to Holland, you are expected to speak dutch within a certain amount of time. When my french partner moved here, he barely spoke a word of english and then had to work and pick up the language.
If you move to a country, you are kind of expected to speak the language in work settings. Its normal.

[Hoppinggreen]

@ErickBroch

The comments in this thread are like a flipping EDL network. A group of Romanian women work in a group together - just them in a section of workers who are dividied by, what seems to be, nationality - and they can't chat because they aren't fluent in English.

And the responses here are people saying 'our language is English so if you want to work here then you need to be able to speak it.' jfc

I was wondering g when the accusations of racism would arrive
It’s not racist to expect people to be able to speak the language of the country they live in, especially at work
It’s for their benefit too

[Stompythedinosaur]

It’s not a complex issue and it’s not about speaking multiple languages either. It’s about working in a country that is foreign to you and not being able to speak the language.

The op isn't talking about a situation where they can't speak English. They are talking about a situation where they can and do speak English but their English is less fluent than their native language and this is significantly more taxing to maintain.

I'm relieved to hear from LetsBeSensible that is can be seen legally as discrimination, as it clearly disadvantages and causes distress to people who are already in a less privileged position.

I just don't think people understand what it is like if they haven't tried it.

[AccidentallyOnPurpose]

Did no one pick up the fact that for work people can speak in their native language?

So all the misunderstanding, health and safety etc comments are pointless.

Workers are only required to speak English if they're having casual chit chat.

They're also segregated so it's not like they're around native English speakers all day. So you have a bunch of people with various degrees of English language ,that can talk in their own language for work but not chat or to socialise.


And that seems all ok or fair to you? Simply because "you're in England now!" ?

[SchrodingersImmigrant]

It’s not racist to expect people to be able to speak the language of the country they live in, especially at work
It’s for their benefit too

I agree. It doesn't have to be fluent. As we discussed earlier in a thread with other p, a2 level is absolutely fine (at least for the beginning). I know quite a few people with quite "broken english" but they try and they communicate as best as they can and that's great.

[WitchesNest]

Well you are in the U.K., so yes you should learn the language.

[year5teacher]

I don’t really get this, unless there’s some kind of safety issue there? It seems massively unfair to me, and I’m shocked so many people think YABU.
I worked in a 98% polish workplace when I was in uni, I only know how to say cheers in polish now but I did pick up basic polish enough to have a convo. But if my manager had said no speaking English I would have spent ten hours washing up in relative silence...

I really think this isn’t ok, because it’s not exactly easy to just learn another language. I do not like the comments saying “if you want to work in our country you need to speak our language” - listen to yourselves?! If a friend of mine thought people at their work shouldn’t be chatting because they spoke another language I’d drop them.

[nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut]

Honestly I think if you live and work in a country then you learn the language and when working you speak that language. Its disrespectful not to. I wouldn't get a job in, say, Poland and then get the arseache because I was asked to speak Polish while working. Its just basic courtesy.

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

The convention that I've always known is "you must speak in a language common to everyone there". Generally, that language ends up being the language of the country you're in (or sometimes English, depending on the situation).

Obviously if two of you are having lunch together, and nobody else is going to join you you could switch back, or if you're really struggling to understand something and a different language would clarify it then it's ok.

What's difficult in your case is that the are two (or three) groups of people where some people don't have any languages in common.