To ask why some contractors are so thoughtless

[lordofthemings]

When I recently got my walls plastered following a repair, the workmen got plaster on all of the surrounding woodwork, the ceiling and the floors in several rooms (they were only working in one but walked through to get to the bathroom). I cleaned for hours and hours and three weeks later I've still not managed to get it all off. The floor was polished wood and now just looks dull.

When I had some work done to the roof, the roofers disappeared in the middle of the job for two weeks, leaving me with a poorly covered hole in the roof. It rained, water came in and there was water damage. They denied water had got in, even though everything was wet. I had damp and mould problems for years afterwards, as it went into the walls. The next roofer I got in told me my dry-ridge roof was in desperate need of re-pointing and then became aggressive when I said it was dry ridge so hadn't been pointed in the first place.

I've had carpet fitters come in and leave bits of carpet and underlay everywhere, an electrician install a socket at a 20 degree angle and make a fuss when I asked for it to be straightened, another electrician leave my boiler in a dangerous state, horrifying the gas man. I've had a plumber install a tap that was incompatible with the mixed pressure water system in my house and then say it was my fault for not telling him it was a mixed pressure system (I didn't know at the time).

Only a small percentage seem to show up on the agreed day at the agreed time. I've had one person turn up three hours early as a 'favour' and then kick off when I couldn't come to the door (I was delivering a presentation to the senior leadership team in work at the time - I'd told him I wouldn't be available before 5pm), and I've had others just not turn up, often without notice so I sit in all day, sometimes having taken the day off as annual leave.

I know there are some decent tradespeople out there who are hardworking, competent and clean, but where the hell are they!? I can count the number I'd gladly get back on one hand.

And why is this behaviour so typical of this sector? I can't imagine walking into the office three hours late, splashing mud and paint everywhere, carrying out my job incorrectly and then arguing with my employer.

Why is this a thing!?

@Fairyliz

I blame the Labour Party . They were the ones who wanted 50% of people to go to university thus making it seem learning a trade was not good enough. We now have millions of people with degrees working in MW jobs whilst those that learnt a trade are the ones living in big houses. It’s slightly ironic that Tony Blair who’s mantra was education education education has a son who is a millionaire by setting up a business involved in apprenticeships.

Fully agree. It was completely stupid and showed how little they thought of the manual trades etc. But then again, Labour/Blair were ALL about the service industries and completely ignored manual work.

Well, if another thread is anything to go by, they behave this way if you don't make them their lunch and give them coffees and cake to take away with them

In fairness my Dad always prioritises working for one old lady customer who makes him bacon sandwiches for breakfast and brings him tea and biscuits, so I think there's something in that if you want to be a repeat customer.

I think it’s a lack of proper training and apprenticeships. There’s no need to train as you can start working and earning without it such is demand. But it means none of them have much of a clue what they’re doing.

I always give mine loads of tea. They’re usually nice blokes. We have some good chats. If they just wouldn’t fuck things up it would all be great.

I find them terrible, absolutely awful. I've just found a decent decorator, he's not perfect (I had to scrub paint off my downstairs bathroom sink snd taps and a few light switches) but the work was to an acceptable standard and he was otherwise clean and even pleasant to have around. I will be hanging on to him as the last few have thrown litter over my rooms, yanked up and folded laid carpets, really badly messed up the work (one used the wrong tape to mark a line and it then pulled the other new paint off in big chunks). Terrible plumbers, dangerous electricians. Quotes varying by thousands. I've been looking for someone to treat my front door for two years but they never show up or ghost me. I'd do it myself but I have a toddler and it needs scaffolding as the top is 6 metres up. I hate them all!

@lordofthemings

When I recently got my walls plastered following a repair, the workmen got plaster on all of the surrounding woodwork, the ceiling and the floors in several rooms (they were only working in one but walked through to get to the bathroom). I cleaned for hours and hours and three weeks later I've still not managed to get it all off. The floor was polished wood and now just looks dull.

When I had some work done to the roof, the roofers disappeared in the middle of the job for two weeks, leaving me with a poorly covered hole in the roof. It rained, water came in and there was water damage. They denied water had got in, even though everything was wet. I had damp and mould problems for years afterwards, as it went into the walls. The next roofer I got in told me my dry-ridge roof was in desperate need of re-pointing and then became aggressive when I said it was dry ridge so hadn't been pointed in the first place.

I've had carpet fitters come in and leave bits of carpet and underlay everywhere, an electrician install a socket at a 20 degree angle and make a fuss when I asked for it to be straightened, another electrician leave my boiler in a dangerous state, horrifying the gas man. I've had a plumber install a tap that was incompatible with the mixed pressure water system in my house and then say it was my fault for not telling him it was a mixed pressure system (I didn't know at the time).

Only a small percentage seem to show up on the agreed day at the agreed time. I've had one person turn up three hours early as a 'favour' and then kick off when I couldn't come to the door (I was delivering a presentation to the senior leadership team in work at the time - I'd told him I wouldn't be available before 5pm), and I've had others just not turn up, often without notice so I sit in all day, sometimes having taken the day off as annual leave.

I know there are some decent tradespeople out there who are hardworking, competent and clean, but where the hell are they!? I can count the number I'd gladly get back on one hand.

And why is this behaviour so typical of this sector? I can't imagine walking into the office three hours late, splashing mud and paint everywhere, carrying out my job incorrectly and then arguing with my employer.

Why is this a thing!?

Stop hiring cheapest one you can find

Stop hiring cheapest one you can find

Makes no difference. Expensive tradesmen can be useless too. When we had our small PVC back porch replaced, quotes varied from £2500 to £7500. We chose the most expensive because "long standing family firm", "local", blah de blah etc. They were a bloody nightmare. We'd asked for "like for like", but the door had shiny chrome hinges and handle (instead of white which the old had) and the did glass panel top and bottom of the door (old one had white PVC panel on bottom). They cracked some floor tiles. The window ledge was too narrow (no overhang). Roof leaked after first rain. Door leaked too as they'd fitted the lock mechanism too loose so the seal wasn't tight. The put on square guttering (old was rounded) so it didn't match/fit the downspout so they just filled the gaps with silicon sealant (looks ridiculous). Basically, all in all, an amateur bodge job.

A year or so later, we had the front porch done (similar size, pvc again) and this time we went with one of the cheapest quotes (prices varied enormously again). He did a fabulous job, no "snagging" problems at all.

Price definitely isn't an indicator of quality at all.

Most good trades people won't work in the domestic sector.

It’s because you probably haven’t offered them a constant flow of “brews” and “bacon butties”. They are delicate creatures, this poor standard of work is all your own fault really.

Nice bit of tradespeople bashing here. Typical MN snobbery. It’s impossible to do stuff like plastering without making mess, maybe engage your brains in future and put stuff that you don’t want getting damaged away?

Also referring to them as ‘contractors’ is exceptionally twattish. Unless you are a large company or local authority then they are just people you employ to do a job for you.

Two things- the lack of encouragement to consider this as a trade, which the comments about Tony Blair's time I echo, and secondly, that the good people can get long-term work on things such as large construction projects.

Also, I’d see it as common courtesy to offer someone working in my home a hot drink. It’s not much to ask is it?

I think I can see a few things that might help.
Do not give a deposit of 50%. The person will not have much of an incentive to do the job. They know they have you and can keep stalling you.

EVERYTHING you have agreed in writing. From the job , specifically what your finished expectations are, including leaving the job clean , will they provide plastic sheeting, vacuums , etc.
How long the job will take , what is the completion date . Standard practise with some tradespeople, is to start a job , then in the middle , bugger and start a new job, so that they have the next job lined up. Sometimes convenient to you , sometimes not.
Ask for references from previous jobs and check up on them.
Make sure they have insurance and the qualifications to do the job.

Any one like to add more to the list ?

I thought it was just me - recently had a plumber in as my bath was leaking. He replaced the drain and overflow but didn't seal anything properly. When I went to use it after leaving it 24 hours to cure, the leak was worse than ever! I had to seal it all myself, and could have saved myself about £80 if I'd understood what the problem was before he came round. And my ceiling in the lounge under the bathroom wouldn't be in such bad shape. Sigh.

I think trades are disastrously undervalued and don't agree with any sort of snobbishness around tradespeople. I just need to be able to trust someone to do the job properly.

@Biscoffaddict

Also, I’d see it as common courtesy to offer someone working in my home a hot drink. It’s not much to ask is it?

If you’re going to work in someone’s home, it’s common courtesy to understand it’s your client’s private space, not a canteen. Be professional and have your own supplies with you to see you through the day. Like you know any other grown adult rather than sulk there because the client isn’t running rings around you.

We're renovating a house. It's a nightmare. Had a carpenter fit decking wood as joists, the things under your floor boards that hold up all your furniture, kitchen counters, people. Told us it was fine, perfectly safe. No its 100% illegal actually and very unsafe. Then tried to charge us for the extra wood he had to buy by trying to scam us.
We're still waiting for the roofer, just another 6 weeks apparently, he was supposed to be done 7 months ago. The door fitters cut the wall in a curve so that when the plaster board went on it would cover the hinges, stopping the door opening. Plumber cut massive holes in the joists for his pipe then didn't tie it down so they shake and bang like crazy. We've have 4 tape measures stolen.
We've got a good electrician and carpet fitter though.

Definitely recommendations from people you know is the way to go. When we had an extension built we got someone recommended by a friend who'd already had an extension built by the same builder. We had to wait a bit longer but he wasn't more expensive than the firm who could "start next week".
We recently had some urgent work which required a joiner. With Covid restrictions and good tradesmen having more work than they can cope with we got our trusted builder to find us someone. He had many contacts of people he's used and rang around for us. We got someone we'd never heard of before but he did a great job (if not a little slower than we'd anticipated) but ultimately the trusted builder took responsibility for the job and checked that all rubbish had been removed and that everything had been left tidy. Obviously we paid a slight premium for this but we would never have got someone to do the job so quickly without doing it this way.

I’ve been lucky(ish). Most have been fine, not fantastic but fine.
Kitchen fitter from hell though, seemed fine when he quoted but on the day he turned up to start work he was a living nightmare.
Had an absolutely amazing carpenter, really really amazing but unfortunately he emigrated to Australia.

RedHotChilliChips well as the old saying goes you can tell a lot about people from how they treat ‘the help’..🙄 Seriously, it’s just basic good manners to offer someone a hot drink, and yes most do bring their own in a flask, but still it’s basic good manners to offer. Something you obviously lack.

I wonder if some of you are having such a poor experiences due to your attitudes? You obviously look down on tradespeople and see yourselves as better and quite frankly have very unrealistic expectations. When you renovate a house or have work done there will some mess, if it bothers you that much well then move out or go and stay elsewhere. As for the whinging about why you have to wait weeks for them do your job, well that’s because they are busy and have other jobs that need finishing first. Why do you think your job is more important?

Weve recently had our windows replaced - cheapest quote, local family form. They did a great job, tidied up after themselves, did job (almost)in time they said they would. Now, of they'd just come back and sort that one sill left to do...Meant to come today.....

Completely agree. We’ve had our house completely renovated over the last 18 months and some of the people we’ve used have been awful.

Plaster everywhere, wearing dirty boots on our carpets without putting dust sheets down. And don’t even get me started on the ones who just don’t turn up. We had one person rearrange at the last minute 4 times! We only carried on using them because all the others we contacted never replied.

We had wardrobes fitted just before Christmas and they managed to knock visible marks into our landing walls, door frames and skirting boards getting the doors up the stairs. DH and I got a king size bed frame upstairs a while ago without making a single mark

And yes. We do use checkatrade and recommendations from friends/family etc. In our experience, most of them still have no clue about reliability, punctuality or decent customer service.

I have found that the best tradesmen don't need to advertise or join checkatrade etc., they get more than enough work just through word of mouth.

We're having a nightmare trying to organise contractors at the moment. We've got quite a lot we want to get done including flooring, fitting radiators, installing a solid fuel stove, refitting a bathroom and kitchen, plastering and replacing windows. So far the only thing we've been able to organise is the kitchen.

Out of about 30 contractors we've contacted, most have either not turned up, turned up to assess the job and then never came through with a quote, or never answered the phone/called us back in the first place. One did answer the phone, then hung up on DH before he'd even said what we were looking for.

After weeks of putting out enquiries a flooring guy called us back one evening this week. DH came off the phone almost in tears of relief that he'd actually managed to have a conversation with someone about what needs doing!

It's not hard to see how cowboys and con-artists make a living in this field. People must get so desperate for someone to turn up and do the work I can see how it's tempting to forego all the advice about getting several quotes and only offering work to someone you'd feel comfortable with.

At this stage, I'd consider anyone who can lift a radiator and owns a spanner.

@namechangeforthis24 I agree about good tradesmen/women not needing to advertise. None of the trades people we've used even have their name or phone numbers on their vans and don't have a Facebook page (or if they do it's not really active).