Would you send your kids to this sort of school?

[doesitfebreze]

If:

1. Money isn't an issue.
2. Your love/hatred for Elon Musk not considered. In fact, leave him out of the equation.

Would you like your kids to attend this type of school? Why/Why not?

Length of the video - 11:04 but you can start at the 2:05 mark. Length of the video - 2:34

There's a bit of school bashing (if you can call it that) in the first video and I'm not advocating for school bashing although I agree that many regular education practices is outdated at best.
I'm more interested in the information about the school. I have no opinion on Elon Musk either way. I really don't care.

YABU - No, I wouldn't want my kids to go to that school

YANBU - Yes, I'd want my kids to go there if money was no issue and I don't take into account my hatred/love/lack of any emotion for Elon Musk.

Yeah I would actually. Was sceptical going into the video but I’m really pro innovative education for the modern world.

Things that would put me off:

• the fact it’s only for 9-13 year olds. That feels like a disruption slap bang in the middle of your formative years if you then have to go back and settle into a normal high school.
• it’s only 1 day a week. Not practical for working parents.

But I like the general principles. From what I understand Finland take a similar approach to education in their state schools and their schools are widely considered the best in the world.

Yes about Finland.

On your list of things that would put you off, you're so right. I didn't think about that. (My own dc are home-schooled and we've been doing what I'd call a mini - perhaps basic - version of something like this. So I was looking at it from their point of view. This would suit them so well).

The only thing is I'd like sports and music to be added to it too for some who'd like it but I can see why they aren't.

Yes agree with that. I think if it was rolled out to a full time model then there would be more time for sports, music, art etc. Obviously what we’re seeing is what’s possible in the condensed time frame.

As for the school bashing aspect of the video. I think it would be more accurate of them to government bash as all the teachers I know (I’m ex teacher) would absolutely love to deliver a creative curriculum like this rather than constantly teach to exams. I remember when I was training to be a teacher I had so many ideas of the way I was going to teach certain things and collaborate with other subjects etc. When I first started I was able to do some of these things, as time went on all that got squashed and it ended up feeling soulless. I taught older teens so very exam focussed. I’m not sure if primary teachers would have more scope.

I wasn't impressed by the "exciting, innovative curriculum" which would only appeal to a certain type of child. In my opinion the majority would find all that high tech stuff totally uninspiring.

No. His whole idea of what education is I found dehumanizing and really, I think very wealthy entrepreneurs need to stop buying into their own hype and jumping into solve all the world's problems. The first video's cherry picked data of drop out, well, Gates has multiple failed education initiatives where even when he took a backseat, his money into the US education system ended up fucking how history and other topics were taught to please the one with gold making the rules and most are largely considered a failure to actually improve the low-income schools he was targeting.

He's just doing what wealthy people have done for centuries - hired private tutors for his own children and then tried to expand their ideals to others and, more recent addition, making training for employees children to essentially make more employees. Many of them ended very detrimental to the children involved and did very little to improve education.

We don't need flashy tech for most topics - they can help, but there are just as many who'd say they've been a detriment to education and issues with less hands-on learning, as well as the very different social skills used in a classroom vs online. I've seen the difference between home education vs school vs online in my own children - I have the whole mix - and I don't think 'learning rooms' are going to fix the problems in the US or anyone else's education system.

The banning of music and sports made me laugh - couldn't possibly want well-rounded children. My DD1 fits their niche academically, but she still chose to move from home education to a school that specializes in music and maths. PE is her greatest frustration, but she wants to be better at athletics of interest, not have them banned. I like that my children have multiple interests and I encourage being balanced. This does none of them.

Yeah, we don't need university to learn stuff (though this isn't aimed at those university age). The wealthy could put more money in libraries and publically available equipment for people to use and learn on - but then where would be the hype for people to fawn over them and direct access to more children's minds to promote their own niches and political views... I mean do we really think the vast majority of the 9 year olds taking that test are using their own genius, or will they be - as is appropriate to their development - just saying what the adults around them say. It seems more to screen the right type of parents.

@thingybob True. I did think it was sort of doing what regular schools do, which is catering to specific talents but I could see how the principle applied to other areas would work for different kinds of people.

Yes agree with that. I think if it was rolled out to a full time model then there would be more time for sports, music, art etc. Obviously what we’re seeing is what’s possible in the condensed time frame.

@chestnutshell Yes to arts as well. I forgot it wasn't mentioned. And I agree with all you've said too. I honestly wonder if you're my friend from a long time ago who said the same thing you did regarding teaching. She was still a teacher then but was considering quitting for this reason.

I don't know about enough about this school but I do think from what I hear it sounds like a good concept and found myself really agreeing with him. I probably would sign up to that school once i have kids and they are at that age if it is possible.

@BiBabbles surely there is nothing stopping parents from going to music lessons or do a sport outside class hours.

@BiBabbles I think they've created a niche 'school' here rather than an all-round one, which is probably why it's one day a week. As @lovepickledlimes said, people could do (and most do) other lessons outside these specialty classes.

Don't know how you home-schooled yours before they chose regular school (there are different styles/methods) but most home-schooling parents I know (including us) don't use a 'school-at-home' or 'learning-happens-in-one-location/facility/room' approach to learning. The whole world is a school. So there's no restriction to what is learned, how it's learned, where and when learning happens. This means there's no restriction to socialization either. Many children in this area (including mine) have been to school and still chose HE. Even some who do school-at-home still have a rich social network for their kids.

Anyway this thread is about this particular school though, not home-schooling.

Did they 'ban' music and sports or was it just that they didn't cater to them? Must watch it again because I don't remember them saying these were 'banned'. That is a strange thing for them to say - 'banned'.

Also this isn't really about Elon Musk and what wealthy people are doing, which is why I asked to take him out of the discussion.

I wouldn’t let Elon Musk anywhere near my kids’ education. He’s a blatant near-future villain.

surely there is nothing stopping parents from going to music lessons or do a sport outside class hours.

Except typical access barriers like finances, distances, and the many things that ideally schools and similar are meant to help children access regardless of their family's ability to facilitate. That not all of them do that very well doesn't mean what is there doesn't have value. The video talks about this as if it would bring down barriers for all children when it seems pretty elitist to me.

It specifically says: ^"...taking music classes or even sports classes are off limits. Instead, drawing on Musks's obsession, students tackle complex projects..." Project learning has already been a fad that hasn't gone well in many topics and a school based on one person's obsessions has never gone well. Discussing this school and appeal to me involves considering how his ideas have worked previously with similar people.

It goes on about the value of one day of this vs 5 days of normal school. The end of the first video specifically discussed this schools, 'making school buses obsolete' and every home having a learning room'. One day niche programmes already exist, my son is one of them, but the rest of the week the children are educated through schools or at home. It's treated as vocational training, not a replacement to current education system as Musk and his fanbase speak about this.

I have home educated for over a decade and have worked in my local community to support families coming out of schools into home education and helped home educated older children into schools and colleges. I'm well aware of the range of home education in the UK, from structured to radical un schooling and everything in between (home schooling and 'school-at-home' are rather American phrases, even to an American like me - no one in my home education communities uses those though home schooling has been used to refer to school-educated children learning at home as many of us do both).

I'm also very aware of the platitudes and how they stack with reality. There are restrictions to what is learned and socialization both in schools and at home, in person and online -- accepting those limitations is part of recognizing the risks, responsibilities, and benefits of the options available. The world being a place of learning doesn't mean there aren't barriers and limits like every other area of life. I don't think things will improve in any type of education until we're frank about the access, limits and the problems with ideology and obsessions in education even when they come from people who are good at making money.

(home schooling and 'school-at-home' are rather American phrases, even to an American like me - no one in my home education communities uses those

And? You say that as if it's a bad thing to use that word. Did I say I'm not American anywhere? For all you know I could be one.

But yes they originated from America and we don't say homeschooling either but people do use it in the UK especially people who don't know about it. It's more popular. There's Homeschooling UK facebook group because of this (born from HEUK). So 'Homeschooling' isn't exactly rare in the UK. It's officially Elective Home Education (EHE) anyway.

Most people, when they hear HE or HS, would think school-at-home and your previous post led me to assume that.

I've also worked with HE families but this isn't really a thread for that.

I'm not sure what you think is a platitude but if you really experienced HE unbiased, you would know different things work for different families. What I wrote is what works for us and family friends, not everybody and since it wasn't an essay on Home Education, there was no need to write the pros, cons and everything in between. I was merely responding to what you wrote but it seems clear you have something against HE in some way. Your posts don't seem like that of someone who was successful in it and whose kids enjoyed it, as you say your kid(s) chose school. Nothing wrong with that but don't use it as a stick to beat HE with.

You also say your kids learn at home and at school which makes me wonder if it's different kids or flexischooling or something. If you HE-ed and no longer are, that's fine because it doesn't work for everybody. Your objection and what didn't work - if your expectations didn't stack up with reality - that's for you and not for everybody either.

Anyway, the homeschool talk and your insistence on talking about 'Elon Musk and his fanbase' is derailing this thread's topic. This isn't a place to debate it. You can start a new thread about it. Thanks.

@BiBabbles I do agree for this to work there would be a lot of work that needs to be done to make sports, art and music more accessible outside of school hours etc. I just also feel like during school hours it is beneficial to maximize the learning that is being done. I don't think that kids seeing 'great pe next I can just kick a ball around' (fiancé), and 'uuugggg pe it's football/basketball' preparing myself for jeers along the lines of 'you see that goal there pickles that's where the ball goes' was beneficial to any child. Even art or music which I was good at I don't think I gained anything from doing those within school hours

lovepickledlimes I completely agree that PE education method of chucking kids into a game is a terrible way of doing it, I'm not sure why so many English schools are still stuck in doing that. At least where I'm from, they alternated a term of that with a term of theory and working on improving certain physical skills and there are better methods we could find from around the world. I read recently on how teen girls often have more injuries compared to boys and the value that reteaching basic physical skills can have as their body and centre of gravity which changes more compared to their male peers... there are many things that I think could be part of a good PE education.

In maximizing learning, we have to determine which one is most beneficial. That's obviously the tricky point that's been plaguing philosophers and educators for ages. I don't think the portrayed hyperfocus on digital and project learning does that - they can work well in some subjects, but the way it's portrayed in the video and I've seen elsewhere on this, I think it's a little too focused on what's beneficial to a very specific industry rather than maximizing learning and benefits for the child.

doesitfebreze American home schooling communities and British home education communities are very different - access to resources, composition, reasons...they're just not comparable in any meaningful way so it's important when discussing them to know which type we're discussing just like it for many things that differ from country to country. I already said I'm American, not sure why it would be assumed I think that is a bad thing, but coming to a largely British site with American language will get questioned no matter what we think of Americans - it's why most discussing a potential local issue will say where they're from.

I'm still a full time home educator. I also have secondary-age children in full time school education and a child who is part time in a vocational programme & part-time education at home. Like I said, I have the whole mix in my house.

I have nothing against home education - I've done it for over a decade out of my own choice, no one made me - I just don't think it automatically the best and it's limitations & risks should be recognized. Things like "So there's no restriction to what is learned, how it's learned, where and when learning happens. This means there's no restriction to socialization either." are platitudes some use that paint a pretty picture, but as much as some would like it to be, none of that is true. All types of education have restrictions, all situations create limitations to socialization, it's about as unrealistic and damaging to act like those limits don't exist like it would be think someone has no bias. Of course I have a bias - I'm human - anyone trying to say they're "unbiased" is talking bullshit.

My bias is that no form of education should idealized to the point it's faults get handwaved because it isn't the terrible school down the road. Too many have taken such a defensive position of home education because it's the minority position and some LAs and schools have been assholes that discussing that home education has limits & that yes sometimes schools can do some things better is seen as against it rather than a reality that many of us talk about away from home ed groups. So many parents fear discussing limits and barriers they've run into so I discuss them openly and loudly, nothing will get better if we pretend it's all just about different things working better. We can't different away barriers to qualification or SEN-related support or the issues with isolation. We can't different away the data on the limits to digital education and how people process and socialize differently in different settings. We can't individualize to excuse everything.

I obviously don't think discussing Elon Musk and those who support him derailing. The question was would I send a child of mine to this sort of school - that requires looking into the school and the people behind it. I also wouldn't let my child go to multiple schools in my area based on the people involved and issues with ideology.

If you say so - I mean you definitely know it all, more than each person in their own situation. Have at it.

The question was would I send a child of mine to this sort of school - that requires looking into the school and the people behind it.

No, that would be for if I said "this particular school", not "this sort of school".

When I was considering it, I surely wasn't thinking of one where Elon Musk is the Head Teacher or the one running it, as I have constantly asked people to try to do so that their opinions on Elon Musk don't cloud the consideration - It's not as if I'm recruiting anyone for it. But I realise it's more difficult for some than others. So yes yes, you're right. Sure. Anything you say.

I like the principles of problem solving and doing work that’s rooted in situations around a real life type scenario. There’s really good research done on this way of teaching children. Most children I know would find the use of technology and project based learning very inspiring. I’d love to see a more inclusive and fun way of incorporating exercise into schooling than the current PE format we have in the U.K. For example, I love this golden mile thing some primaries have now where they do a mile everyday, walk, run, play, skip whatever. It’s habitual, it’s non-competitive and sets up a good habit for later life.

I also wouldn’t really want Elon Musk being at the helm of a school my child was in but j don’t really think that was what the post was asking. More about what we think of the methodology?

Thanks @chestnutshell. You got it right. Your posts and that of 2 others (lovepickledlimes and Thingybob) are exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for and clearly asked.

I agree with what you've written as well. I do know there are children whose learning styles wouldn't fit into this so I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone.

Well exactly. And I think that this is a problem we have with education in general is that it’s really hard to cater to all children all the time. I’m interested in looking at all of the research and how we ensure that all children are getting the most out of their education. When I think back to school I do feel a little sad at the way I was taught some things - especially Maths which I found tricky. Now I’m an adult and have to apply Maths everyday for work, home life etc I have realised I’m actually quite good at it! I wish there had been other ways for me to explore it other than the specific way I was taught.

When I think back to school I do feel a little sad at the way I was taught some things - especially Maths which I found tricky. Now I’m an adult and have to apply Maths everyday for work, home life etc I have realised I’m actually quite good at it!

Ooh are you me? I know this saying causes some eyerolls on MN but I just said this same thing to someone a few days ago.

I could also say this about most of my school subjects tbh. I love learning so much now and I do it all the time. I can't even imagine restricting myself to a particular place or time unless it's something I want to do - that would be torture (and dc are the same) but when I was in school, I'd do anything to get out. I was actively learning nothing. Whatever stuck was out of sheer luck.

I do know some kids who thrive in school (I feel I have to say this before...).

And I think that this is a problem we have with education in general is that it’s really hard to cater to all children all the time

True.

3 of my kids aren't ambitious enough; the other child is too ambitious. They wouldn't fit in.

I do need to say COVID has absolutely caused some restrictions. I was speaking about pre-covid and post, hopefully.

Music lessons cost money that many parents cannot afford.