Only 3 live lessons pw Y11

[Timtims]

Plus Y8 DC only had 2 this week (none at all March 20 - Dec 20).

So many friends who have DCs in other schools have almost a whole timetable of live lessons.

Seems so unequal and unfair. How is a child who has had about 20 live lessons since March 20, supposed to 'compete/compare' with a child who has 20 hours per week. At GCSE!!!

No joy with speaking to school about it. They just say they are doing their best.

AIBU to think my DCs are being massively disadvantaged and let down.

(apologies if this topic has already been discussed 1000 times).

I think you’re right to feel aggrieved. Mine are at state school - 5 year old gets 4 hours live at day, plus extra work (largely optional), 7 year old gets 5 hours live a day plus 3-4 assignments that are collected and marked same day. Whilst not all children/families could manage that much work (for very good reasons right now), I am grateful for the opportunity that our school offers. Personally, I think the inequity across schools is appalling, and I think it’s naive to think that it won’t affect later life chances if children fall behind through no fault of their own.

5 year old gets 4 hours live at day, plus extra work (largely optional), 7 year old gets 5 hours live a day

This is actually awful.

There are serious concerns about the effect that this amount of screen time is having on young children, particularly regarding activity levels and eyesight. Primary schools should not be doing that many live lessons and should be providing activities that can be done away from a screen.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/22/children-health-screen-times-covid-crisis-sleep-eyesight-problems-digital-devices

Whatever! My children do not have any other screen time (TV or games consoles) at the moment and spend free time outside or playing. As their parent, I am very happy with the provision but thanks for the concern 🙄

Well hopefully the school will reduce their online provision as they do have a duty of care.

I hope they don’t. My kids are doing very well - happy, healthy, well rounded, well cared for. As for the article - I’ve seen none of those effects. They sleep very well - we have a good bedtime routine preceded by a family meal and whole family game, which helps everyone relax. Also seen no problems with eye sight or I would execute my own “duty of care”. Your concern is neither needed nor wanted here. Thanks all the same!

That’s the problem with parents wanting provision that suits them without any regard for whether it suits or is good for everyone else. Teachers and schools have to be mindful of and cater to everyone in their classes.

Er... my original post stated “whilst not all children / families could manage that much work (for very good reasons right now), I am grateful for the opportunity that our school offers”. The school does not demand children complete all the work set, it merely offers the opportunity for those that can or want to. At what point exactly have I suggested that I want provision that suits me without regard for what works for others? 🤔

In actual fact, our school offers specific (one session per day) support for children who are NOT doing all the set learning to keep them on track and keep an eye on them. My children aren’t invited to these classes for obvious reasons, but I am happy for those that they cater for.

@Randomrebel

I totally agree and think our kids with SEN are often really struggling. I am setting year 10 work for the year group and trying to differentiate for our smaller group who have lower targets grades and all have SEN but I feel terrible that even then it's so difficult for them to access without a teacher and TA help. All the best to your DD.

At what point exactly have I suggested that I want provision that suits me without regard for what works for others?

Because you merrily dismissed the concerns of experts about whether it is actually best for your children.

Personally, I think the inequity across schools is appalling, and I think it’s naive to think that it won’t affect later life chances if children fall behind through no fault of their own
I also find inequality across schools to be awful. It has been that way for decades and is not a new thing.

Personally I find it amusing (and sad) that there's been educational inequality for decades and it's taken a pandemic and lockdown for those who are usually on the privileged side to start pretending to care about educational inequality.

Mumsnet seems to be full of parents with nice homes, enough devices for all, decent enough wifi, parents on hand to support (varying amounts), complaining that their children are going to be disadvantaged and banging on about inequality.

Every day I'm at work I see very real inequality, the effects of poverty on education, the inter-generational legacy of poor education and social issues, those let down by poor SEN and mental health provision, and parents who struggle to feed their children let alone run 3 children's worth of live learning. Those with the pointy elbows on here don't seem to give a damn about those children or those families. I'd estimate that 75-90% of the posters pretending to care about educational inequality tend to be pushing 'solutions' that further entrench their children's existing advantages in life. What most posters on here mean when they talk about disadvantaged and inequality is "I want my already privileged child to continue having privileges in a way that suits our family, but if I pretend to care about poor children then hopefully nobody will notice".

Actually noble giraffe, as an experienced child clinical psychologist and clinical neuropsychologist, I feel I have enough “expertise” on the subject to “merrily accept” my own opinion on this matter. You stick to getting your expertise from a newspaper if that works for you.

I’m sorry Noble Giraffe. I felt a bit attacked by your comments, but I’m sure they were well meant. I’m sorry if I have caused offence. Let’s not have a row on the internet - I’m sure we both have enough going on right now! Best wishes to you and yours - we’ll all have our own ways of surviving this nightmare that fits with our own way of thinking and what is possible for us.

@Bobbybobbins thanks but my DD whilst not flying high academically doesn’t receive any SEN provision or have a TA and never has. Her targets ranged from 7-3. Her mock results were dreadful including 2 U’s one in a subject she was going to take at A level (previous test score in it was an 8). She didn’t use the extra time she was allocated in December mocks as the halls were freezing with all windows open and in most subjects to make us of it would have meant staying behind the school day.

Think she is just totally demotivated and fed up working at home in a dark scruffy bedroom. She isn’t eating properly, doesn’t go outside and hasn’t seen any friends since before Christmas. Also think she just wants this whole GCSE nightmare limbo state she has been in since last March to end.

@noblegiraffe My kids have a full timetable of online lessons and it works brilliantly! They have plenty of breaks away from the screen and even the live lesson isn't exclusively on a screen. The teacher will explain the task, the kids pick up the book and work on that and is available to help when they're stuck. Only about 20 minutes of an hour lesson is actually looking at a screen. It adds up to less than 2 hours a day and is definitely worth it because the kids are so engaged, have a continuing structure and get to interact with their class mates.

I’m sorry Noble Giraffe. I felt a bit attacked by your comments, but I’m sure they were well meant.

Yes, I wasn't attacking you, but what I see as a fad for live lessons. I'm also worried about the consequences. My own 7 year old isn't getting live lessons and I think that's a good thing.
I've also taught live lessons and know what it looks like from the other side so we're all bringing our own experiences and biases into this conversation.

Maybe what is actually important about the live lessons is seeing that teachers and classmates are still out there and remember you, but in terms of educational standards, their success is heavily reliant on a number of things that are very rarely all in place.

There is no evidence that says live lessons are the gold standard

There is no evidence that in the absence of face to face teaching that they are not either. I don't think that anyone has conducted wide ranging studies on the varying types of education methods available other than face to face in order to say so.

From my own experience having worksheets set on an app last lockdown and having the teacher talking dc through the work 3 times a day, and answering questions live, the difference is vast, as someone working full time at home especially. My son is definitely happier too and the amount of work I have to assist with is much more manageable.

There is no evidence that in the absence of face to face teaching that they are not either.

I think it's pretty obvious that they're completely ineffective if the kids can't actually access them. And that's a big problem. Still.

They're also not going to be great if the teacher isn't very good (let's not pretend all teachers are good, and even if they're good in the classroom, they may not be good enough at technology to make live lessons good). I've taught some pretty shocking live lessons down to not having any idea how to do it (I'm getting better!), along with technical issues, kids having technical issues and the extremely difficult to solve problem of getting kids to engage when they aren't in the same room as you, and being able to tell whether they actually understand what's going on.

I don't think incompetence is an excuse noble. If the teacher is shit on line then they will be shit whatever happens and the fact that there lack of ability has not been identified or managed shows poor leadership of the school. It is not an excuse to trash the online access of other dc and other teachers.

And if the dc does not have access to a phone/tablet/laptop to access the lesson then they are allowed in school or provided equipment.

Compared side by side to sending out worksheets and doing jack shit this is definitely better.

@noblegiraffe

You're being massively OTT here. The expert advice you quote doesn't in any way demonstrate that the negative benefits of extra time on the screen outweigh the positives effects of the education and peer interaction. There are simply some concerns to bare in mind. The previous poster has said her children are happy and sleeping well. Clearly they're not being overly negatively impacted.

I don't want to generalise as I know it differs between schools and children but the live lessons have been great for both my DC. They definitely miss play time and PE lessons at school but for the academic subjects the learning has been almost as good as in the classroom (the only difference is the lack of practical lessons they'd normally have).

I'm not sure I get the argument that noone should have live lessons because some may not be able to access them.

I think this is leading to a bigger educational divide, whereby schools in more deprived areas offer no/few live lessons because they are concerned that not all the pupils have adequate electronic devices. And schools in more affluent catchments, offer full live lesson timetables.

Surely we should be solving problems if access, not creating a race to the bottom.

And I'm not as secondary school teacher, but I am not persuaded that 4 worksheets a day are equal to either a timetable of live lessons OR prerecorded lessons.

The Education Endowment Fund has done the biggest study to date - it concluded that it isn’t the medium that’s makes the difference, it’s the quality of teaching.

Do you feel your kids are getting high quality teaching, OP? Did they get high quality teaching pre covid?

And I'm not as secondary school teacher, but I am not persuaded that 4 worksheets a day are equal to either a timetable of live lessons OR prerecorded lessons
So your totally reasonable complaint would be that the remote provision isn't suitable, not that other people have live lessons/it's not fair your DCs don't have live lessons/why you think is should be done...

As a teacher, if I were in your shoes my first port of call would be to ask for their remote learning policy. That will outline the expectations from the school's leadership. If the policy says one thing but staff aren't meeting it, then that's grounds to complain to the head straight away.
If the school policy says that 4 worksheets is their provision then you can formally complain about the quality of the provision because there is a leadership failure.

I'm not saying your DC are lying btw because I know some provision has been dire, but have you definitely checked what the provision should be? I'm only saying this as I know of colleagues in various schools (including mine) who've had claims that no work has been provided or there's only a quick activity and then when the parent has complained they've actually explained to the parent that this is where all the work is, that all information went directly to students, etc. and the poor parent was left a bit embarrassed because the teenager had tried to play home and school off against each other. That's why I'd start by speaking to the school directly before complaining.