Where are the senior nurses?

[pinkcortina]

So Ruth May got dropped from
briefings because she wouldn't toe the party line on the Cummings debacle. That was a long time ago. She must have really stood her ground to be ostracised for this length of time. BUT my AIBU is... is it shameful that the only people at the briefings discussing the frontline care are male doctors? Doctors of both sexes are working their arses off but there are nurses working just as hard too and this is an opportunity for nursing's status to be highlighted and raised. There are many PAMs that are also not getting a voice. Yes the briefings have a purpose but to exclude senior, informed and well educated HCP's from across the health services feeds into the elitist approach from this
government. Disclosure alert, I really do like JVT! Second disclosure alert, I'm a nurse. I don't work on a Covid ward but I am face to face with very vulnerable, chaotic, mask 'exempt', multi household mixing patients where I have no chance of establishing a clear history of risk.

They’re probably scared the next senior nurse will do a Ruth May. Nice to know that it was a nurse who wouldn’t toe the party line and stood up for her convictions.

Agreed @HildegardNightingale I am proud of her but longer term I do think there needs to be a senior nurse at these briefings now and again

Professor Janice Sigsworth from Imperial has her head screwed on. She terrified me but in a good way 😂

Imagine if a site Matron appeared!

@Poppyseeds2

Imagine if a site Matron appeared!

Haha! I love it when I see threads saying 'bring back Matron' there have been modern matrons for nearly 20 years! What they mean is being back Hattie Jaques. She'd have Johnson over her knee for a spanking he's not doubt enjoy before now

Most of our matrons (not all tbf) would be simpering and staying hush.

Bit like the regular tbh.

Can I ask what a nurse would bring to the briefings over a doctor?

That is not goady - it’s a genuine question. I don’t have a clear idea of what they would contribute over CMO, DCMO and CSO but I’d like to know.

To add context I’m an accountant and at Board, there is no benefit to me being there when FD is. I know that’s somewhat simplistic but I think it conveys what I mean?

@Merryoldgoat

Can I ask what a nurse would bring to the briefings over a doctor?

That is not goady - it’s a genuine question. I don’t have a clear idea of what they would contribute over CMO, DCMO and CSO but I’d like to know.

To add context I’m an accountant and at Board, there is no benefit to me being there when FD is. I know that’s somewhat simplistic but I think it conveys what I mean?

Nursing is an equitable but different health care profession. Nurses do things that even ten years ago would have been unthinkable. We have Nurse Consultants, Advanced Nurse Practitioners with prescribing skills, nurses who manage case loads on wards and make high level clinical treatment decisions. Excluding senior NHSE nurses from briefings is wrong and disenfranchises around 50% of the clinical teams with decision making capacity. I'm sure you mean no malice but suggesting you have more junior financial staff members who are superfluous to your high level meeting is not comparable with the modern NHS when disciplines are different but integral. In my area of nursing I do not need a doctor to practise. My training and skills have superseded that of doctors in my specialty. In ITU (where I have worked for 3 years pre covid) nurses doctors and PAMs all dovetailed each other. Having widely watched PM briefings only with doctors having a voice is not a fair reflection of the wider healthcare challenge. Get senior midwives on talking about the affect on maternity care. Senior paramedics talking about the impact on the ambulance service, Senior OT's/physios taking about the changes they have made and pressures they are under now. It's not just about doctors. The NHS would collapse tomorrow if there was just one professional group

I don’t mean malice at all. It’s not about being superfluous to requirements - I couldn’t add anything more than she could.

I absolutely understand what you have said above - that makes perfect sense. I don’t work for the NHS, I don’t know anyone who does in a clinical capacity and therefore it was a genuine question.

My mum was a nurse - but that’s over 40 years ago and things are obviously very different now which is why I asked as I wanted to understand.

@Merryoldgoat

I don’t mean malice at all. It’s not about being superfluous to requirements - I couldn’t add anything more than she could.

I absolutely understand what you have said above - that makes perfect sense. I don’t work for the NHS, I don’t know anyone who does in a clinical capacity and therefore it was a genuine question.

My mum was a nurse - but that’s over 40 years ago and things are obviously very different now which is why I asked as I wanted to understand.

I suspect your mum wouldn't recognise nursing today! It's changed for a reason. In my speciality we have been evaluated over ten years and found that our care, standards, governance and clinical decision making and patient evaluation has excelled the previous doctor led service. I have amazing doctor friends. They are fantastic practitioners but we are different. Nursing and PAMs should be reflected in the government briefings

@Merryoldgoat

Can I ask what a nurse would bring to the briefings over a doctor?

That is not goady - it’s a genuine question. I don’t have a clear idea of what they would contribute over CMO, DCMO and CSO but I’d like to know.

To add context I’m an accountant and at Board, there is no benefit to me being there when FD is. I know that’s somewhat simplistic but I think it conveys what I mean?

I think a nurse would bring plenty considering they have closer contact with their patients not to mention longer

@pinkcortina

I’m sure it would be. She stopped when I was born and was planning to go back and was investigating additional training but unfortunately died unexpectedly. I think she’s still be working now if she was still alive.

She talked about her time nursing so happily.

@Poppyseeds2

Yes - I hadn’t thought of that. Thank you.

Merry just off the top of my head; End of life care, infection control, health education, care of long term conditions, maternity care, rehabilitation, paeds, holistic care of the whole family.

@PurpleWh1teGreen

Thank you - that would all be really interesting to hear about.

Scottish leaders are well balanced sex wise - obviously have Nicola Sturgeon, but also have the glamorous Nicola Steedman, Jeanne Friedman and Fiona Maureen, Director of nursing.

McQueen not maureen

I've noticed that the briefings are very white (apart from Professor Van Tam) too

@marshmallowfluffy

I've noticed that the briefings are very white (apart from Professor Van Tam) too

Standard sadly

[quote Merryoldgoat]@pinkcortina

I’m sure it would be. She stopped when I was born and was planning to go back and was investigating additional training but unfortunately died unexpectedly. I think she’s still be working now if she was still alive.

She talked about her time nursing so happily.

@Poppyseeds2

Yes - I hadn’t thought of that. Thank you.[/quote]
I'm sorry to hear that

Tbh there are plenty of people who could deliver the relevant medical information in a briefing. It is very disappointing that they have chosen solely older white men to do so.

I would have expected the inclusion of a nurse at some point tbh as having only doctors feeds into the very out-dated and demonstrably damaging "medical model", where doctors are seen as in-charge and not to be questioned and other professions as subordinate. That isn't how healthcare is these days, and with very good reason.

From a medical point of view they have had women: Professor Jane Eddleston who leads the critical care network in the north west was on recently but I also have been disappointed by the lack of nurses.

Think Ruth May is a legend though.

@Stompythedinosaur

Tbh there are plenty of people who could deliver the relevant medical information in a briefing. It is very disappointing that they have chosen solely older white men to do so.

I would have expected the inclusion of a nurse at some point tbh as having only doctors feeds into the very out-dated and demonstrably damaging "medical model", where doctors are seen as in-charge and not to be questioned and other professions as subordinate. That isn't how healthcare is these days, and with very good reason.

You are absolutely right. I want see ambulance service leads and senior midwives too. Professor Jacque Dunkley Bent would be amazing.

@user1471462428

From a medical point of view they have had women: Professor Jane Eddleston who leads the critical care network in the north west was on recently but I also have been disappointed by the lack of nurses.

Think Ruth May is a legend though.

True but thank you for agreeing nurses are grossly unrepresented

I think a lot of the silence from nurses especially on platforms such as Twitter is due to being gagged in the early stages of covid. I left after the first wave of covid but the trust I worked for had asked me to sign a gagging contract ( I never did it and no one chased me). Hospital have massively mismanaged the response to covid and in my experience the training was unsafe crowds of nurses packed into wards to do training, no adequate PPE, no management or visibility of management, no support (although I believe that this has been offered later on). On the ward there was no track and trace of covid patients and existing patients were sent home with no testing. It was a unholy mess and I’d love to see a nurse get up and say that. Loads of junior nurses risking their lives and working incredibly hard and being let down in an almost criminally negligent manner.