To think that I should not have to be out of pocket because of this.......

[TableFlowerss]

Cutting a long story short -

I own a downstairs flat that I rent out.

Upstairs own and live in their flat. One of them is a pain in the arse (eg doing things without asking that benefit them) the other is fine.

They basically done something that meant water was running in to my flat through the ceiling, through and on to electrics etc...(let’s say left the bath running- it wasn’t quite that, but you get the gist - I don’t want to be outed with the specifics)

The nice one apologised and confirmed it was their fault in an email and gave me the insurance details so I thought well I’ll get the money back, because I sent the insurance all the emails the upstairs owner sent me and there’s no questions it was their fault, they admitted it.

I foot the initial bill of say £800 and almost a year on, I’ve still not got the money back. My insurance company seem totally unconcerned and basically said there’s no guarantees their insurance will pay out...

I mean how the hell is that fair? It’s not a case of ‘hmmm who’s fault is it though? It’s debatable’ It was obviously coming from their UPSTAIRS flat and they admitted it and apologised.

It shouldn’t matter if it’s from their boiler/toilet/washing machine or whatever - it’s still caused damage to my property.

So it looks like they’re going to get away with it and yet I’m having to foot the bill for their carelessness. Basically it could happen again and again and I’ll have to pay!?!?

How is that even fair?

What would you do if you were me?

I can't believe you have only called them three times

You're dragging your feet as much as the insurers. I'd have been on the phone everyday by the point.

Madness

It's your insurers job to pay the claim and re coup the money from the person at fault (or their insurer).

In normal times you would report the issue to your insurer, they would organise the repair and probably charge you the £200 excess.

If you have something in writing from your insurer telling you to go ahead with the repair and they will reimburse you then you need to resend to the claims department with evidence of payment and give them 7 days to pay before taking the case to the ombudsman.

Yeah but my insurance company aren’t going to pay me the £800 either way as it wasn’t my tenant.

That’s not right. It’s your flat that is insured. What sort of insurance is it? Buildings?
If there’s a 200 excess, that’s an amount you will have agreed to. You pay that. The other 800 should be paid by your insurance company, and they claim the money back from the other insurance company.

@AgentProvocateur

^this

However prepare for a wait. You made 3 calls in 1 year and are now complaining about delays when insurers are going to be under immense pressure managing localised flooding and storm Christophe claims. This is bad form on your part, you should have been chasing this 10 months ago and regularly!

@LDpuppy

Why wouldn't your insurance pay the rest? Normally surely they would and then they claim back from other insurer

This.

Whenever I have claimed on insurance I pay the excess, they pay the rest, and the legal cover pursues the other insurer for the repayment of the excess. It's not my job to chase someone else's insurance company.

I think we need to know how the leak occurred. Were the upstairs neighbours negligent or just unlucky?

I have had this problem too many times and because it has always been something that the upstairs neighbour couldn't control, like a pipe from the dishwasher coming loose, I have never received compensation.

Here's some information from an insurance broker: www.brucestevenson.co.uk/insights-and-events/theres-a-leak-am-i-at-fault

"The general, mistaken, belief is that if the leak came from your property, you’re liable and should pay for any damage incurred to your neighbour’s property. However, the reality is that unless you’re found to be negligent your home insurers won’t pay to repair your neighbour’s damaged property.

It would need to be proven that you were legally liable for the damages caused and you were negligent in your actions. Most normal leaks are simply bad luck and not negligent."

When my bath leaked my downstairs neighbour claimed off the block insurance policy (paid for in your service insurance). Are you not doing that?

Normally the first thing you would do is contact your insurance company, before arranging the work to be done.

But anyway, contact them weekly for 6 weeks then go to the Ombudsman. And in the meantime go through citizens advice - I guess if your upstairs neighbours were actually being negligent you might have a case in the small claims court, but it’s puzzling your insurance company wouldn’t just pay out and then sort it with theirs, so that Is certainly your first route.

Unless there is an exclusion for this particular event in your policy then your insurer should have paid out £800 to you. You can then sue the tenants of the other flat for the excess of £200 you have stood and they should be covered on their policy for public liability.

Upstairs neighbours' insurance will only pay if upstairs neighbours were negligent. It's not enough that the water came from their house eg leave taps on is negligent. Washing machine springs a leak is unfortunate, but not negligent

Your own insurance might have covered this claim for damage in your own house. Probablybyoo kate to claim now, but worth asking

Either your insurance have this totally wrong, or you do.
They wouldn't pay your excess. You pay that.
They pay the £800 remaining for the repair.
You then sue the neighbour for your excess, if they are liable.

Your insurance would have to pay the £800 whether or not the neighbour is liable (negligent). That's why you have insurance. So they ahould have paid that, no matter what. They can get the money from your neighbours insurance company ic the neighbour is liable, but if not it, then they dont. But they still need to pay it.

You need to call every day, and bombard them with emails. And you need to go to the ombudsman.

I'd call and put serious pressure on their insurance company.

Insurance solicitor here.

You no 1 problem is with your own insurers. They should certainly have reimbursed you (as pps have said they would normally arrange and pay the work direct but covid has complicated things). You shouldn't have to pay anything but the excess. You need to make a formal complaint to your insurer's complaints department. If that does not resolve satisfactorily you make a complaint to the financial Ombudsman Service who will nearly always side with the policyholder. That should deal with the £800.

Recovery from the upstairs neighbour/insurer is not straightforward. Your insurer should be taking the lead within this although you will also have an interest because a non-recovery will effect your premiums. You also won't get your £200 excess back without a full recovery.

Unfortunately, the fact that the water came from that neighbour's flat does not automatically mean that they are liable. Their insurers do not insure other property, only legal liability for damage to third party property. In other words the neighbour would have to be negligent at law for such a liability to attach. If it is a leak that they weren't aware of until it happened and they acted reasonably once aware of it to stop further leakage/damage then there is no legal liability. if they let the bath overflow or did some dodgy DIY and punctured a pipe etc ... that is the potential for negligence. So there may be no scope for a recovery.

Having said all that, blocks of flats are usually insured under a single policy (typically by the freeholder for the benefit of the tenants) so all leaseholders claim under the same policy for damage to the building structure/fixtures and fittings and there is no need to get into recovery. Contents are insured by individual leaseholders (this would include damaged electrical items etc so this may be what you are talkign about).

Your insurer is the issue. Have you read your policy to check what you’re actually covered for?

I'm wondering whether OP isn't claiming from a normal household policy but a special 'let' property policy?
Normal household insurers will reimburse you for water damage, excluding the excess. IF the upstairs flat owners were negligent then your insurers would claim back from their insurers for the amount they paid out (not including your excess). You have a right to claim any 'uninsured' losses from your neighbours insurers. However, most water damage is accidental. As long as they stopped the leak when they were made aware of it, they were not negligent.
Maybe try writing/emailing your neighbours insurers direct?
During the 1st lockdown a lot of insurance staff were working from home so I can only imagine that things are taking much longer than normal and your claim isn't a priority.

I agree with everybody, stop blaming the neighbours, it is your insurance that should be paying you back.

@SwedishK

I think we need to know how the leak occurred. Were the upstairs neighbours negligent or just unlucky?

I have had this problem too many times and because it has always been something that the upstairs neighbour couldn't control, like a pipe from the dishwasher coming loose, I have never received compensation.

Here's some information from an insurance broker: www.brucestevenson.co.uk/insights-and-events/theres-a-leak-am-i-at-fault

"The general, mistaken, belief is that if the leak came from your property, you’re liable and should pay for any damage incurred to your neighbour’s property. However, the reality is that unless you’re found to be negligent your home insurers won’t pay to repair your neighbour’s damaged property.

It would need to be proven that you were legally liable for the damages caused and you were negligent in your actions. Most normal leaks are simply bad luck and not negligent."

This exactly. Everything you say is true and that’s the battle we face.

It was negligent imo, although of course the insurance company will no doubt say otherwise.

Think putting a hot tub in the living room of an upstairs flat. (It wasn’t that exactly, but along those lines - why would you do that in a upstairs flat) so it’s that carelessness, not giving a shit attitude that’s led to this.

It just seems that these is a loophole to allow this to happen. In that case what’s the point of insurance because no one takes responsibility and then the owner of the damaged property is left to pay.

It’s so unfair

OP, but you shouldn’t have to pay. Your insurance company should pay.

I feel your pain op, this sort of thing has happened every time I hear about people trying to claim on insurance.
It doesn’t matter what company you use they are all a bunch of cowboys who are happy to take your money but will do anything possible to avoid paying out.
DH was involved in a RTA accident in October, the other party admitted liability. Despite filling in pages and pages of documents nothing is happening. He chased up again this week and was asked for a form that he send in October and three times subsequently.
Their previous excuse was Covid and I expect now it will be the storm. Isn’t this what they are paid to do?

You should have gone through your own insurance and they should ideally have paid excess - although legally I'm not sure they have to do that (I don't know this, just an assumption). It will be to late for this now though.

I thought normally if you are claiming through someone else's insurance it would be on their PL section (is third party property damage).

The problem with this is that in most cases you have to prove negligence. So if they had put the bath on to run and forgot about it that's pretty easy to prove but if it was a genuine accident or an issue with something that broke that wasn't their fault then no negligence. Also knowing something and proving it are two different things. They will probably have contacted the other insurance and asked them to pay and been told it isn't their insured fault or ignored. Proving negligence is difficult and costly in legal fees, the more they push this and if they had to get lawyers involved then the more likely it is that the costs would far outweigh the cost of the damage.

Yes its shit but it's just being practical, there is no point paying 10k trying to prove a 1k claim wasnt your fault.

I'd be arguing that your no claims discount should be applying though since they had the opportunity to surrogate and didn't take it

Having to prove negligence isnt insurance companies being cowboys and refusing to pay out - its uk legal process

And why isn't your insurer reimbursing you. It seems pretty clear they should pay so you're not out of pocket (other than your excess)

@honeylulu

Insurance solicitor here.

You no 1 problem is with your own insurers. They should certainly have reimbursed you (as pps have said they would normally arrange and pay the work direct but covid has complicated things). You shouldn't have to pay anything but the excess. You need to make a formal complaint to your insurer's complaints department. If that does not resolve satisfactorily you make a complaint to the financial Ombudsman Service who will nearly always side with the policyholder. That should deal with the £800.

Recovery from the upstairs neighbour/insurer is not straightforward. Your insurer should be taking the lead within this although you will also have an interest because a non-recovery will effect your premiums. You also won't get your £200 excess back without a full recovery.

Unfortunately, the fact that the water came from that neighbour's flat does not automatically mean that they are liable. Their insurers do not insure other property, only legal liability for damage to third party property. In other words the neighbour would have to be negligent at law for such a liability to attach. If it is a leak that they weren't aware of until it happened and they acted reasonably once aware of it to stop further leakage/damage then there is no legal liability. if they let the bath overflow or did some dodgy DIY and punctured a pipe etc ... that is the potential for negligence. So there may be no scope for a recovery.

Having said all that, blocks of flats are usually insured under a single policy (typically by the freeholder for the benefit of the tenants) so all leaseholders claim under the same policy for damage to the building structure/fixtures and fittings and there is no need to get into recovery. Contents are insured by individual leaseholders (this would include damaged electrical items etc so this may be what you are talkign about).

Thanks so much for you experienced reply. It’s very informative and very helpful and I feel more confident now knowing how it works better. Thanks again- much appreciated