Who is being unreasonable

[Vilanelle]

Person A had a rant about the mess on the house to a friend via WhatsApp, exact message "house is a fucking mess :')

Person B viewed the message and has take offence. They were using person A's phone as theirs was dead. Reply popped up and pressed on it accidentally.

Is Person A in the wrong for being mean about the state person b left house in or is person b in the wrong for reading the messages

Is the house a "fucking mess" or just not up to your standard??? Two massively different things

Hmm. I'm not sure about this. Full disclosure, I am the one with higher standards in my relationship in terms of house cleanliness, but if I leave the house clean and then DH cleans up after himself and the children in his charge (a reasonable expectation, surely?) it will be in pretty much the same state as I left it on my return and certainly not reasonably described as 'a fucking mess'.

If Person A has been managing to maintain their expectations when in charge of the baby, it should be possible for Person B to do the same (barring disability/exceptional circumstances).

Cross posted with you OP you sound like a reasonable partner in saying you will both sort it out BUT that message has probably made her feel useless and wasn't very nice, even with an emoji.
I would be making it up her.

I maybe wouldn't have messaged a friend but that's a pretty poor standard to find the place in. Dirty nappies just left on a floor?? Multiple unwashed bottles? Neither of those is okay by any measure.

Is this all from one day, or has it been left to fester for a few with neither party tackling it?

Dirty nappies on the floor is revolting and absolutely justifies calling it a fucking mess.

She should have spent all day cleaning and be embarrassed enough not to do it again. Not talking to you is pathetic.

@Pippa234

Cross posted with you OP you sound like a reasonable partner in saying you will both sort it out BUT that message has probably made her feel useless and wasn't very nice, even with an emoji. I would be making it up her.

I hope you’re joking.

Sounds like it was a 'fucking mess' then and person B needs to up their game. Being generous maybe they just need a bit more time to adjust to managing home and baby.

"I hope you’re joking."

No I am not joking @AnneLovesGilbert, just because you would rather make someone feel miserable for not looking after the house doesn't mean everyone would.

I managed to keep my house fairly well but I did have a particularly hard baby who didn't sleep and fed all day I was extremely mentally and physically exhausted I can understand how some people might not be able to manage things and see mess how I do.
I would always tread carefully with a new mum postnatal depression is real as is just the feeling of feeling massively overwhelmed through sleep deprivation and constant feeding.

Having a baby in lockdown is also not the easiest I had baby groups to go to, I could go and see my friends and family, I had things I could go and do with baby. I could make plans.

Finding out ways to help them manage is alot more productive and kinder than making them feel useless.

Person B shouldn't have left the house in such a mess if they didn't want Person A to get annoyed about it. Dirty nappies on the floor isn't acceptable. Neither is straighteners on the floor.

pippa are you confused about the people involved? As OP has been on maternity leave she’s presumably the mum who was pregnant and gave birth. Only women who’ve given birth can have PND as they’re the ones who are post natal.

She’s been on maternity leave and managed to put dirty nappies in the bin and kept on top of cleaning bottles. She’s now gone back to work, her DW/DP must have chosen to take shared leave and now be on baby duty. My compassion is with her as she’s the one coming home to a literal shit tip and now being given the silent treatment - which is emotional abuse.

I’d be concerned for my baby’s safety if my husband thought this was a suitable environment in which to keep a possibly quite mobile 8 month old.

"pippa are you confused about the people involved? As OP has been on maternity leave she’s presumably the mum who was pregnant and gave birth. Only women who’ve given birth can have PND as they’re the ones who are post natal."

@AnneLovesGilbert Did you not know even men can suffer from postnatal depression? So no I don't think it's relevent who gave birth.

Regardless even feeling overwhelmed is very common leaving dirty nappies around sounds to me like they are overwhelmed. People who are overwhelmed/depressed can be messy.

As I say having a baby can be very exhausting there is a mental health crisis as it is with lockdown let alone having a baby amongst it.

I don't think not speaking is emotional abuse if you are upset. Some people shout some people are quiet I think you are stretching the story a bit sorry.

OP asked peoples thought on it I voiced mine, you may not agree with it but it's my thoughts sorry I can't change that.
We will have to agree to disagree.

Everyone is unreasonable.

Op, you should know from experience that maternity leave can be hard work and cut your partner some slack given that it's only their first week, and it will take some adjustment.

They shouldn't have read your messages.

Everyone should be a bit nicer to each other - both starting maternity leave and returning to work can be emotionally tough.

Well, Person B said sorry for the mess and you said its fine, and then told someone else it wasn't fine and called it a "fucking mess"

So yeah, you're unreasonable and she's right to be mad at you.

Did you not know even men can suffer from postnatal depression? So no I don't think it's relevent who gave birth.

They really, really don't. They may suffer from depression following the birth of a baby. They do not suffer from postnatal depression. HTH.

@ivfbeenbusy

Also assume Person A is the mother and Person B is the father......since this IS mumsnet can you imagine the uproar if the father came Home from work and said the house was a "fucking mess" - the mother would be told to LTB. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Two women. Maternity leave.

YABU to phrase it so awkwardly.

Neither of you are being unreasonable .

Dirty nappies on the floor and used bottles (plural) left lying around is a fucking mess.

Managed to straighten their hair but didn’t have a spare 30 seconds to gather up the used bottles, walk to the kitchen and and put them in the dishwasher. Or put dirty nappies in the bin.

Lazy.

"They really, really don't. They may suffer from depression following the birth of a baby. They do not suffer from postnatal depression. HTH."

www.familylives.org.uk/advice/pregnancy-and-baby/becoming-a-dad/dads-and-postnatal-depression/

www.nct.org.uk/life-parent/emotions/postnatal-depression-dads-10-things-you-should-know

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/04/fathers-men-get-posnatal-depression-too

www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/blogs-and-stories/after-birth/tommys-midwives/postnatal-depression-men

There are many more links which back up what I say but regardless what ever you want to call it makes no difference really.
I don't want to derail the thread over this so I have said my piece.

Op look after each other.

OP hasn’t said anyone is depressed so talk about stretching a story. They must both have agreed to switch who was doing work and who’d be with the baby. Part of being at home with the baby is maintaining basic standards in the home. If this was a man people would be up in arms about strategic incompetence and trying to sabotage OP’s return to work by being so useless and lazy.

I think it will be hard for her to adjust to the baby plus cleaning and she’ll now realise how hard it was for you. Apologise and say it wasn’t meant as a dig and was just a glib comment and move on

Person B shouldn’t have left straighteners or dirty nappies on the floor 🤢
Person A shouldn’t have moaned to a friend about it making person b look incompetent
So both unreasonable

In what world has no one here ever moaned to a friend about their partner?

I think you were being unreasonable. It’s only been a few days. Your partner needs time to adjust to being the stay at home parent. It’s like complaining about someone not being up to speed with a new job before the end of the first week. To be complaining to a friend so soon and so nastily is disloyal and mean.

Gender irrelevant I’d be really annoyed with dirty nappies on the floor, that’s disgusting and there is no need for it, not after nine months, and dirty bottles laying around and straighteners on floor, and a baby living on those conditions.

Unless there is a significant mental health problem at play that’s not ok. And then to read your messages and give you the silent treatment makes it a huge amount worse. Horrible behaviour. Slovenly and abusive.

Dirty nappies on floor and used bottles on sofa and floor is not on as milk/bodily fluids can leak out and soil sofa and carpet which is pretty grim.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to loan to a mate about it. You may rationally understand it might take your partner a few days or a week to get into the swing of things and therfore instead of raising it as an issue after the first day or two, you let off steam by telling a friend the house is a mess...... Perfectly reasonable.

It's also reasonable that your partner hasn't quote got it all figured out just yet. But I wpiod expect dirty nappies in the bin and bottles even just stood up on the windowsill of they hadn't managed to get them cleaned up. That feels like basic H&S with a baby (similar with straighteners.... I wpiod also suggest getting a heat protection case for them, as baby gets more mobile its really important they can't get hold of them).

A couple of years ago I took my family - myself, DH, DS6 & DD 18 months - on a 2000km round road trip through nowhere to see a friend graduate from the military school.

In a shop, she shoved her phone in my face & said to hold it for her. A message thread popped up on the screen that moment. It was a fellow recruit's response to her complaining about having to spend her day off with kids. I didn't want to see it, didn't want to know I'd dragged my kids there, spent our annual holiday time & budget, at her invitation, to be complained about so hurtfully. I only saw a few words by accident. I turned away, but that's all it takes.

If you give your phone to someone, expect they'll accidentally see messages. If you've written something offensive, assume that'll be the message they'll see.

No, I didn't say anything. I was too upset & angry. It's forever tainted my view of my oldest friend, though. Especially when we accommodated her needs when she had small kids & we had none.