To think this was an inappropriate school task

[Lalalabrador]

My year 8 daughter was asked to write an essay today on the question How did India benefit from colonialism and how was it harmed by it? I’m pretty gobsmacked. I’m a professional historian and sad that something so intellectually bankrupt is being taught to young people.

OP hasn't replied since she was called out by a PP asking her how a civil servant (as the OP stated she was in some posts a few months back) has managed a quick career change in a pandemic to a "professional historian" who is writing and getting history books published!

It's like asking what are the benefits of having your house burgled

To be fair, it's more like having your house burgled, your stuff taken, but when they leave, you find the burglars have fitted triple glazing, a state of the art heating system and redecorated. The garden looks nice too.

Don't get me wrong. The Brits behaved appallingly. But as I said earlier, many Indians don't see it quite as we do. And if we don't respect that they feel there were gains, then we're being as patronising as the colonialists.

Alexa But isn't the issue that whilst most non deviant people would agree that rape is wrong and immoral, as we have seen on this thread orientalism runs so deep in our society that many people do argue that western modernism was a benefit, especially now reflected in the glow of populist nationalism. Challenging 12 year olds to think that through from a moral / economic / political etc perspective is a start to combatting that sort of delusion. It would have been better worded to suggest that whether there were any benefits to colonialism has to be contrasted with the depth of the many evils but I think it is good that the "benefits" argument gets exposed for evidenced rebuttal. Unfortunately the A level module on the struggle for Africa the idea that there were benefits was implicit in the syllabus. Even historians without much exposure to area studies have that unconscious bias, they simply are not used to having to confront it in themselves on a daily basis in the way that the academics who specialise do......

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum oh right read it wrong as thought it was a bit hard for an 8 year old[/quote]

Practicing history = Re-enactor
New book = self-published

Don't get me wrong. The Brits behaved appallingly. But as I said earlier, many Indians don't see it quite as we do. And if we don't respect that they feel there were gains, then we're being as patronising as the colonialists. Implicit to theories of Orientalism is that some of those colonised internalise Orientalist attitudes especially as the colonial infrastructure of education and governance perpetuates those internalised perceptions and attitudes. If western academics are constantly questioning their own perspectives and the orientalist attitudes they have internalised from their own culture it would surely be patronising to expect less from people analysing their own history? You would in particular be hard pressed to find any Indians in post colonial generations i.e born since 1950 who still hold to those views, in fact quite teh reverse in my experience....

Emily, I get what you're saying, and I don't have an issue with kids looking at all aspects of the colonial legacy. My issue is with the wording of the question, which presents it as a simple pros/cons argument.

But as I said earlier, many Indians don't see it quite as we do. And if we don't respect that they feel there were gains, then we're being as patronising as the colonialists.

Some Indians may feel that there were gains. I have encountered this view. Equally, many Indians would be deeply offended by the mere suggestion that there were benefits to colonialism. My DH would definitely fall into the latter category.

India is a nation of more than a billion people.There will inevitably be a diversity of perspectives, so let us not try and speak for them. And let us also not try to evaluate the impact of colonialism on their behalf. It is not for the perpetrators to analyse the impact of their crime.

You would in particular be hard pressed to find any Indians in post colonial generations i.e born since 1950 who still hold to those views, in fact quite teh reverse in my experience....

I agree. I have only ever heard these views from older Indians.

It is not for the perpetrators to analyse the impact of their crime.

Really? Surely reflecting on everything that was wrong is absolutely what we should be doing in order that it is never repeated.

And yes, listen to the people there, of all generations and opinions, in order to do so.

As far as the task is concerned, I think the wording of it is possibly confusing and I wouldn't have used the word 'balanced', but I've always taught my kids to think through both sides of an argument, a situation or an event. And I think this is a fair task to give a secondary pupil to really get them thinking and empathising.

It is not for the perpetrators to analyse the impact of their crime.

But it is for history students to analyse the impact of their history.🤷‍♀️

Really? Surely reflecting on everything that was wrong is absolutely what we should be doing in order that it is never repeated.

Yes, to be fair, I have no issue with us reflecting on what we did wrong, in the same way that I wouldn't have an issue with a rapist reflecting on what he had done wrong. Where I take issue is with us deciding all of the ways in which we did people a favour by colonising them. I don't think we are in a position to judge this.

Lalalabrador I totally agree with you. 100%. Colonialism was an awful thing, and there is absolutely no benefit in trying to justify it. Imagine if the question was "highlight some of the benefits Nazism for Germany, and some of the disadvantages". There would be uproar.

Sorry I read that as 8 year old daughter lol I thought that was a bit advanced haha

Imagine if the question was "highlight some of the benefits Nazism for Germany, and some of the disadvantages".

It's more like asking about the benefits of Nazism for the Jewish people tbh, and some of the disadvantages.

Lalalabrador I totally agree with you. 100%. Colonialism was an awful thing, and there is absolutely no benefit in trying to justify it. Imagine if the question was "highlight some of the benefits Nazism for Germany, and some of the disadvantages". There would be uproar."

As people have pointed out many times upthread, to deny that there were benefits to Naziism would be disingenuous. Did that justify Naziism? Of course not.

It is not for the perpetrators to analyse the impact of their crime

Why not?

Also: the OP's DD is not a perpetrator, nor is she a criminal.

@june2007

There was a programme a ear ago that asked this question. One positive. (according to the indian lady.) was the north can communicate with the south. Also in the 70,s when Indians were sent out of Ghana would they have come to the uk for refuge if thre had been no empire?

I assume that you mean Uganda, not Ghana?

Indians would not have been in East Africa to be kicked out of in the first place, if their ancestors hadn’t been press-ganged there to build railways for the empire. They were indentured labourers and thousands died in the process.

@AlexaShutUp

You would in particular be hard pressed to find any Indians in post colonial generations i.e born since 1950 who still hold to those views, in fact quite teh reverse in my experience....

I agree. I have only ever heard these views from older Indians.

More specifically, I have only heard these views from high caste older Indians. They seem to resent the fact that there are low caste Indians sitting in the Lok Sabha ruling over them. I have also heard such people express the view that poor people don’t need to be educated.

"I agree. I have only ever heard these views from older Indians."

So does that mean we shouldn't listen to them?

@AlexaShutUp
Well I guess you could say the founding of the Jewish state of Israel

The point is, positives quite often come out of negatives, that doesn’t mean they should have happened in the first place!!!!

Why not?

Because the perpetrators do not have to live with the impact of the crime. Would you think it was appropriate for a rapist to consider the ways in which he had done his victim a favour by raping her? Would it be ok to ask German children to write an essay on the benefits of the Holocaust for Jewish people and how they were harmed by it? I think not.

I take your point that the child is not actually the perpetrator. We are not our ancestors, but we still enjoy the advantages that we gained through colonialism, while others still live with the negative fallout. Some sensitivity is therefore required.

It seems to be it would be better practice of history to write about the effects of colonialism rather than making a value judgement about whether they were good or bad.

So does that mean we shouldn't listen to them?

No, of course not, but I was referring back to Emilyontmoor's point above. Not sure if you read this?

Well I guess you could say the founding of the Jewish state of Israel

Yes, but that's exactly my point! Sometimes, people might identify things that they consider to be positive which have arisen from things which are unspeakably awful, exactly as you have said.

My point is that it would be unbelievably crass and offensive for a German child to write about the creation of the state of Israel as one of the "benefits" of the Holocaust to the Jewish people. How could you ever talk about benefits in relation to something so utterly wrong?

"No, of course not, but I was referring back to Emilyontmoor's point above. Not sure if you read this?"

Yes, I did. I don't get why it matters that 'only' older Indians think this.

I don't think it makes sense to compare colonialism to rape. It is far too emotive. I say that as someone from a colonised country. They are not the same thing.

The other question, whether German children should study the benefits of Naziism - as I understand it, they do, but within the context of it being a bad thing.