To think more people should be incentivised to downsize?

[Sprockerdilerock]

I'm sure I will be flamed but here goes.

I know so many older adults who live in family size homes long after their children have left. Would it not be better for the government to offer incentives eg no stamp duty, removal costs paid for them to downsize to free them up for those that need them more?

We do have a housing shortage and I get that we could always build more homes, but we are also heading towards a climate crisis and surely it's better to use what resources we do have more efficiently and plough less energy into creating more.

My MIL is case in point - she still lives in the home my DH and his siblings grew up and often expresses a wish to downsize but she doesn't have a lot of money to spend on things like legal costs etc.

Also a lot of older people in their large homes give employment to the local community.
Lady in the house opposite is in her 80,s she has been a widow for many years and all her children live either abroad or the other side of the country.
She employs
A gardener every two weeks
A window cleaner every for weeks
A cleaner weekly.
And any maintance is done by local trade people and even though she is old she still ensures her home is kept in good repair.

One of the thing my gran always regretted was the size of her flat.
Yes she didn’t need the big house anymore. But she also couldn’t have family staying over anymore. When one of her dcs struggled (death of her partner), having her adult child plus grand child staying was so much more hard work with one spare bedroom.

My parents moved away and bought a house recently. They still have two spare bedrooms because they want me to be able to come with the grandkids.

So on a day to day basis they don’t need a big house. But if you are not living close to each other, having the space makes visiting much easier and nicer

I doubt dh and I will downsize from our large home when the dc’s leave as I anticipate gc’s and lots of big family gatherings. Also I love the privacy, space and peace and quiet our house provides - not many smaller places would offer these things.

YABU because houses are not just a roof over someone's head. For many they are investments, safe places to keep money, offer great returns higher than many pension funds and unless you live in a stately home - what better gift to leave your children when you die. It isn't financially a good idea to sell up and have a nice pot of money in the bank earing little or no interest.

On the face of it, it makes sense to incentivise retired people in large family homes to downsize, but I don’t think the incentive should be money. No matter how small their income, the costs of selling can be easily covered by the equity in their homes (most are fully paid off). It’s not money stopping them from downsizing. It’s because they are home and they have over the years become attached to the community they are in. They’re not going to want to uproot and put down roots somewhere new unless the place they go has a community established and welcoming for them.
I think what would be a better incentive is to have more retirement communities with support. A gated community with its own leisure facilities, resident DIY caretakers, resident gardeners, a community Center for socialising. So people could down size into one of these smaller retirement homes and pay a small service charge so as to not worry about repairs or gardening, etc. They’d be in a mini village with people their own age which would combat loneliness and make those who hate hearing kids screaming happy.

MIL is still living in the large family house on her own. She's lived there for 45 years or more and all her memories are there. She doesn't want to move, ever.

OTOH I know another lady in a similar position who would move if only she could find a suitable property in the locality, but where she lives (semi-rural) the only houses are big ones.

@Kazzyhoward

I think people are missing the point here. It's not a matter of persuading people to move who don't want to. We need to provide help for those who do. That doesn't have to be financial help. I've know relatives and neighbours who've stayed where they are simply because they were too old to cope with all the hassle, sorting out possessions, getting rid of stuff they don't need, etc - it's just "easier" for them to stay where they are and let the house deteriorate around them. There's a "sweet point" in your life where it's time to retire, downsize, move abroad, move in with family, move into sheltered, or whatever - that's the time when you're still able to deal with it all, make the right decisions, etc. Trouble is you don't know you've missed the sweet spot until you've missed it, i.e. when you get a debilitating disease or illness, or when your mind starts to go, or whatever.

this...

I don’t think many people would want to live in a geriatric ghetto @PlanDeRaccordement.

This would work on our road. We have 3-4 bed houses with single elderly people in them and families in 2-3 beds. Same road. If the larger houses were avail more often the price would come down surely, balancing the issue out.

@PlanDeRaccordement one of my inlaws lived in a luxury retirement village, I thought it was a good idea.

There are loads of retirement flats where I live. No one wants to buy them. They are small mostly flats with very high service charges.
Even if you buy a two bed there are rules for guests staying over and you wouldn’t be allowed to have a younger family member move in.
Then when you die your family have a flat that no one wants to buy.
It would be better if some of these retirement flats were released on to the open market for all ages as they would be ideal for a single person starter home.

No way would I sell my house if I was living here on my own.
I envisage either always having one or both of my children living here with their respective partners and children or buying with them a much larger house so we can all have our own wing of a house that we couldn’t afford individually. I am from a culture where communal living is seen as normal.

i think some of you are thinking about retired people as ones that are geriatric. Many of us are still quite active and dont actually want to be with a load of 70+ people with lots of health problems and restricted mobility. i dont need help with gardening etc etc

the things that put me off moving are the hassle, the cost of making another house how i want it (this one fits my taste), that i need the rooms for family to visit and that i actually like this house and am attached to it.

And to those that say we have had it lucky wealth wise. In some ways yes, but i remember back to when interest rates were 15% and the price of our house had dropped by 25%. Working 80 hours a week between my husband and I has been no fun, with both of us travelling a lot....living away.

The only time this would help would be for social housing. For freeholds generally the greatest demand is for smallish houses, you don't want Graham and Brenda selling their 5 bed and buying a 2 bed because that will make it more difficult for first time buyers and young families.

@Kazzyhoward

I think people are missing the point here. It's not a matter of persuading people to move who don't want to. We need to provide help for those who do. That doesn't have to be financial help. I've know relatives and neighbours who've stayed where they are simply because they were too old to cope with all the hassle, sorting out possessions, getting rid of stuff they don't need, etc - it's just "easier" for them to stay where they are and let the house deteriorate around them. There's a "sweet point" in your life where it's time to retire, downsize, move abroad, move in with family, move into sheltered, or whatever - that's the time when you're still able to deal with it all, make the right decisions, etc. Trouble is you don't know you've missed the sweet spot until you've missed it, i.e. when you get a debilitating disease or illness, or when your mind starts to go, or whatever.

This - it's happened to some elderly friends of mine and it's sad. Ideally they should have downsized to a smaller, more manageable home a couple of years ago. Now, one has had another stroke and caring for them takes all the energy the other has, even if the house is no longer suitable for them. They're looking at adapting the house rather than moving as it's "easier", even though realistically they're only going to deteriorate from now on but there are no incentives/help available to help them move somewhere more appropriate for their needs.

This would work on our road. We have 3-4 bed houses with single elderly people in them and families in 2-3 beds. Same road. If the larger houses were avail more often the price would come down surely, balancing the issue out

We have this sort of thing in a local town.
What happens is a developer buys a couple of the larger houses and bulldozes them to build luxury apartments or they buy up a row of the smaller places and build a cul de sac of big houses.
If anything the prices are going up not down.

My parents live in a huge ex guesthouse (they bought it and ran it as a guesthouse for years) with 4 double rooms, all ensuite. Of course it's huge for 2, but it's also miles away from all their children and this way all 11 of us can go and stay at once! They love it so much!

According to my MiL it’s not that they don’t want to downsize but that the type of property a downsizer wants to buy just isn’t being built. Developers concentrate on family homes, starter homes or flats not something someone moving from their former family home might want. Like a good location off street parking spacious rooms etc etc.

Out of curiosity, I just checked Righmove for 2 bed bungalows for sale in the whole of London. There are 43, out of a city of 10,000,000 people.
Where are all these older people supposed to move to?

I agree it would be good but as others have pointed out there are a lot of drivers for people not downsizing. My parents are mid 60s, kids all in twenties/thirties, still living in a huge 6 bed with 1/2 acre. There is an element of pride in it too - by the time you no longer care about having a house that impresses people you've probably missed the 'sweet spot' for moving as others have mentioned and can't be bothered with the hassle any more. Although with my parents I think there will come a point where the upkeep in terms of constant DIY and odd jobs isn't worth it any more and that will probably drive them to downsize.

One grandmother moved to a flat quite early, in her early 60s and loved it, loved the community in the building, but all her family were near so it didn't matter about people staying. The other one was in her late 70s but moved later as the building provided her an income - she lived on the ground floor and let out flats on the other 3 floors.

@ifailed - flats. Many many flats in London have lifts even in old buildings.

Its private house that you buy and eventually own fully once the mortgage is paid, it's noones business if you decide to stay in it or downsize. Absolutely noones.

Its also noones business on how big a house anyone can buy and live in or when they should sell.

I just totted up, and in my road of 30 houses just three three are occupied by working-age adults with children. In some ways it is a shame - all those big gardens not being enjoyed. Well, they are being enjoyed, just very quietly !

But... as an earlier poster mentioned, if the pensioners downsized, how would you ensure the houses were bought by families? One house in my road was sold by a widow to a quite old couple who had downsized and hated it so were upsizing again.

Agree also that downsizers would like the same footprint downstairs, but fewer bedrooms. But this is a developer’s worst nightmare. Their favourite build (round here anyway) is the four-storey townhouse - which is hideously unsuitable for nearly everyone, let alone old people.

I would ‘incentivize’ them with a bedroom tax for each additional unused bedroom. I think that would get a few houses on the market
Wow, you're lovely aren't you?

@notalwaysalondoner, if you are used to living in a family home with a garden, maybe a flat isn't what you'd want?