Irish parents - most important leaving cert subject Honours maths??

[Pastasau]

Hi all, with the Junior cert cancelled dc is looking ahead to 5th year. She is looking to do either veterinary or engineering. We are thinking ahead to subject choices are dh is convinced honours maths is the be all & end all for the extra 25 points...
Maths is her favourite subject along with Irish (she went to a Gaelscoil for primary). She was set to do all honours for the leaving. Career guidance in her school isn't the strongest & 3rd years receive none. Dh & I are unsure how to guide her so I'm doing as much research as I can with her.
The courses she is very interested in have extremely high points, she has the innate ability but will need to be crafty all the same to get the maximum points... She loves art & is doing it this year, it did take up alot of time & apparently in lc the projects are extremely time consuming so it's probably one to drop?
With the pandemic we can't really enquire within the school & in fairness to all the school staff they're doing a smashing job..
So Irish mumsnetters (& secondary teachers) fill me in on a few "maximising points hacks" please !
Aibu - honours maths not most important lc subject
yanbu - honours maths most important

Those grades are for UCD but I presume the other universities are similar. You cant study engineering if you can't/don't do honours maths.

If she wants to do Vetinary medicine she'll need 6A1s all at higher level. The extra points for Higher maths will be very important. Plus you say she likes Maths.
I did Higher Maths, or honours Maths as it was in the olden days. Maths was my favourite subject and I had grinds etc and I got a B which I was thrilled with.
Also as someone up the thread said I'd encourage TY. It's a great opportunity to take some time out of the grind of study and learn some things outside of the acedemic. Plus it's great for promoting project work and research skills which are very important for university.
Good luck to your DD. I met a student once who was repeating her leaving for the 2nd time to try and get into Veterinary medicine. I hope she got in the third time.

Also, if she wants to get work experience with a vet, our local place has a long waiting list. One advantage is a lot of people discover they don't have the stomach for it, much as they love animals.

Honours maths , stick with it especially if she enjoys it and as others have said pay privately for good career advice . The advice you get in school is not always the best . We had a leaving cert last year best of luck with it even though the exams didn't go ahead we worked out good .

Not a parent but I am Irish!

You have to be extremely careful with veterinary in Ireland! For the last few years it has been compulsory to have work experience in order to be eligible for a place. The UCD website says that ‘Applicants must normally have at least 60 hours practical experience relevant to animal handling. This must include experience with at least two of the following four animal categories: Pets, Horses, Farm Animals, Wildlife/Zoos’

I’m a college student myself and have heard of multiple people who couldn’t get in because they didn’t know the requirements had changed. They’ve changed the requirements to have fewer hours because of the pandemic but I wouldn’t be sure that would still be there when she gets to 6th year.

In the case of subjects, biology is tough to get a h1 in but easy to do well in (and highly recommended for vet). I also thought chemistry was a very predictable subject and easy to do well in if you understand the marking scheme. Also Economics is a very short course and has lots of choice so that’s possibly a good choice if business inclined.

I’d also recommend applied maths if she’s interested in engineering. It’ll help her loads for when she gets to college and it’s also handy for points if she’s good at maths.

If her school doesn’t offer it, try find out if there’s an agreement with a local boys school to offer it to girls or I would consider doing it as an extra subject in a grinds school. My partner did this and now has a maths degree!

Is chemistry compulsory for vet science? Also, agricultural science is worth a look at, a lot of people here so it through evening classes.

@eggandonion

Is chemistry compulsory for vet science? Also, agricultural science is worth a look at, a lot of people here so it through evening classes.

It says UCD is the only University that does it in Ireland and your need Chemistry

Sounds like honours maths would be of great benefit to her in the areas she wants to get into.

I always think picking 'easy' subjects for the points is flawed. Better to be properly prepared for college.

And it would be an awful shame to miss transition year. What's one year in the overall scheme of things, I suspect most nowadays are 19 when they start college.

My dd1 was just 19 starting college. Her careers adviser in school told her she should put medicine on her Cao form. Dd1 advised her that it needs lc chemistry.
Double check everything!

20:42Pastasau

Hi all, with the Junior cert cancelled dc is looking ahead to 5th year.

Since when has the JC been cancelled? I know the Dept of Education are acting as is it doesnt exist with all the focus on the LC but it hasnt actually been cancelled.

So sorry, I know it's not officially cancelled but we've heard from numerous sources it will be & that they are focusing on leaving cert first.
Thanks everyone for the advice regarding transition year. Talked with dd & dc last night at length & dd said she would love to do it so we're going to explore further.
Will start looking at courses properly to see the entry requirements, her school doesn't offer applied maths so it would need to be done outside school as an additional subject. Her best subjects would be Irish & maths.. English is good, she does well in honours but she is a more logical thinker so prefers maths & science subjects. Spanish is also a very strong subject, she picked it up very quickly, I think all the years in Gaelscoil primary helped her aquire it very quickly..
I am going to read back over all the posts again & thanks for all the advice.

Hey OP, did the Irish LC many years ago and sounds like I was similar to your DD. I went onto do a science degree in college.

I took all subjects at honours level. Also went to a gaelscoil and thankfully that was an easy A1.
I took Art and yes, it is so time consuming. If she doesn't need it then maybe drop that workload. She could maybe take up art lessons outside as a hobby?
The honours maths was also so time consuming but that workload was on top of the Art as well as 2 x science subjects which your DD may not have. I ended up dropping to ordinary level maths after Xmas before exams. I was definitely on the back foot dropping so late as they are two totally different subjects BUT I found ordinary level so much more practical and enjoyable and thankfully achieved an A1. If the higher level isn't required for the course entry it, she's not depending on the extra points for the CAO and she's naturally good at maths it maybe an option to take ordinary and aim for the A1 (or equivalent in today's grading?)
Best of luck to her in the exams x

If she's good at maths higher level leaving cert won't actually consume too much time compared to any other subject. There's less rote learning (and the leaving cert is very heavy on pointless rote learning compared with Alevels) so she can learn it as she goes along and won't need to cram at the end.

Have you actually tried to contact the Career Guidance Counsellor at your daughter's school? I work as a GC in a school and all of our senior students get taught in class as well as receiving individual career appointments, but so are 3rd years in the lead up to subject choice. The 3rd years then make appointments to discuss their options where necessary.

Also, the Junior Cert isn't cancelled.

If your daughter wants to do a Level 8 four year degree in Engineering in a university, she will need Higher Level Maths. It is a course requirement; H4 (60-69%). If she is interested in Veterinary Medicine, she will need a H5 (50-59%) in Chemistry. Biology isn't necessary but strongly recommended. A third language is a minimum entry for any NUI college.

Her subjects have almost picked themselves - honours maths, English, Irish, spanish, and chemistry are essentials for her university requirements. Then biology as a 6th is a very strongly recommended choice if she is considering veterinary (it sets students at a disadvantage in the first 2 years not to have it) so that only leaves a free choice for a 7th, if she's doing a 7th.

Best of luck!

If you are looking for a subject to boost points, Business was a good one. It's basically just a lot of rote learning. Another handy one was Home Economics. Once your daughter has the required subjects to matriculate, she could study one of those subjects as they are points earned a lot easier than other subjects

OP there is nothing really hard about honors maths it’s about putting time in.
Other countries have higher standards of maths for their equivalent of the leaving cert and it’s no bother if you put the time in.

I don't have kids, but I did higher maths and passed it fine, but I think it was my hardest subject and took a lot of time away from the other higher subjects I was revising. Looking back, I think I'd have had a better LC overall if I'd gone with lower maths.

I know it's just one anecdote and decades ago but if she starts to find it hard, it might be worth considering dropping down.

She might fly at it though!

Honours maths is a must as without it, it will be incredibly difficult to pass 1st year Engineering
Also need physics

If I was in that situation I would be looking at English, Irish, Maths, Physics, Biology, MFL .... and if enough time either applied maths or chemistry .... all at higher level
And yes I did 8 honours subjects.... English, Irish, Maths, Chemistry, Biology, Physics, French and History

Btw.... I did an engineering type subject in university.... with lots of maths and physics in 1stvyear.... didn't have an amazing grade in the LC but I got through the 1st year.... everyone who had lower maths failed and didn't get through on the resits.... the Higher maths covers topics which lower maths doesn't.... you need to be able to differentiate and integrate and apply these to problems going to engineering as well as all the trigonometry etc.... lower maths only barely introduces the concept of differentiation

I also know a fair amount of Engineering drop outs who didn’t have the maths skills for it.

@Pastasau this may help, reliable source,
www.courses.ie/i-want-to-be-a-vet/# . Might be worth a dig on RTE podcasts - there was a series last year where they interviewed first year veterinary students - some in Ireland, Poland etc. Best of luck to her -