AIBU to think gay roles for gay actors

[SqueakyCarrots]

Is basically pushing people to out themselves?

In what other career would it be ok to question people’s sexuality? What if the actor isn’t out or doesn’t want to be? What if it’s a teenage role and a teen actor- how can it be ok to question a child’s sexuality? What if the person themselves doesn’t know yet? How would they be expected to prove it? And wouldn’t pretending to be lgb something some would fake to get a role?

Sure there’s a need to address those who feel discriminated against because of their sexuality within the film industry. Sure it would be great to look at how gay people are represented in films, narratives that aren’t stereotypical or insensitive. But the idea that gay roles should only ever go to gay actors seems to be on every social media feed and I don’t see any concerns about it in response.

@stayathomer

YippeeKayakOtherBuckets I was thinking of the Sia thing too- she cast Maddy Ziegle as an autistic teen and Twitter exploded with everyone telling her she needed to fire her and hire someone who had autism. The abuse over something that sounds like something well intentioned was unbelievable. I dont know where I stand on any of this, as people say above acting is acting, but then you do look back and see how white, straight, able bodied, slim, beautiful and privileged the acting community is

Sia also posted some vile responses to autistic people on Twitter. I saw them before she deleted them.

Maddie reportedly felt very uncomfortable with what she was being asked to do during filming. She was persuaded to continue by the adults who should have known better.

I'm assuming that this post is in response to the recent Russell T Davies interview?

Several posters have mentioned discrimination within the industry (which I don't doubt exists), but from what I have read of the interview, Davies' statement was about authenticity. I read the interview in the Metro, so it may have been heavily edited, but I think this is the passage in question:

‘I’m not being woke about this… but I feel strongly that if I cast someone in a story, I am casting them to act as a lover, or an enemy, or someone on drugs or a criminal or a saint… they are not there to ‘act gay’ because ‘acting gay’ is a bunch of codes for a performance. It’s about authenticity, the taste of 2020.’

The "codes for a performance" bit is something that I find interesting. I am autistic and I would find it odd that in the name of authenticity only an autistic actor could play an autistic role. To me it implies that we are in some way homogenous.

If I was an actor, why would I be seen as more authentic to play an autistic character who (to cherry pick a few presentations) is non verbal, can make eye contact and has sound sensitivity, but no problem with smells, when I am verbal, have difficulty with eye contact, have only limited issues with sound, but have light sensitivity and quite severe smell sensitivity?

Would an autistic actor who didn't have the same presentations as the character they were playing also be using codes for a performance, or would it be okay because they may share some experiences with the character?

The above isn't about the Sia film by the way, which I've only just seen on here (and am about to go and read up on), it was rather a badly worded musing on what 'authenticity' means in an acting context.

Comefromaway I think your explanation of the use of spectrum is completely wrong. It does not mean that "you are either on it or you are not", it means that autism can have very many variations and a huge difference in the degree to which a person is affected by Autism, from very mild traits to profoundly disabled.

Back on topic, no I don't believe that only gay people should be able to play gay characters. It is however true that a gay actor may be the best choice because of being able to bring something to the role from their own experience, just like someone who is a parent might be better at playing a character who is a parent.

I think it's stupid too. It almost feels like we are actually going backwards and almost segregating people again. Gay people can only play gay people, Jewish people can only play Jewish people, etc. I know it's not gotten that way yet by a long shot (thank bloody god), but these things always start with small steps. We are going backwards more than forwards I think.

Actors are acting. It's a role, it's generally fiction as well. It's not real. It shouldnt matter who they are, what they believe etc.

but then you do look back and see how white, straight, able bodied, slim, beautiful and privileged the acting community is

Oh yeah, actors. Not like the profession has been known as a hotbed of homosexuality since the profession began, or anything

I actually think it's quite offensive to say only gay people can play gay people on screen.

Gay people don't have inherently different characteristics or behaviours which mean only gay people can play them - it's almost othering to insist on this.

I understand with ethnicities as that is something clearly visible, but sexuality is not evident immediately.

I think part of it is a push back from the fact that traditionally (and is still very evident) that no gay actors would ever be cast as romantic leads

If you came out as gay or lesbian then you tended to be stuck as a side kick, on indie gay films and told to stay in the closet if you wanted to play any lead/ or romantic roles.

So essentially queer actors were stuck in queer roles, except that they also saw huge numbers of hetro actors were still being cast in those roles too.

Comefromaway
All I saw was people telling her she was a disgusting human being etc etc, I didn't see anything else.

Yes, I think those posts came later, in response to what had happened before.

Some autistic creatives attempted to engage by questioing the way things had been done (I saw the posts, they were reasoned, intelligent questions) and also the involvement of Autism Speaks which is an organisation that many autistic poepl and their families feel is quite abhorrent, and Sia responded by telling these people that they must all be bad at their job.

Sia responded by telling these people that they must all be bad at their job.

Rupert Everett is on record for saying being gay prevented him from winning leading male roles.
However I'd hope that times are changing and there is less prejudice by casting directors.
I can think of many gay actors now playing straight characters.

I think part of it is a push back from the fact that traditionally (and is still very evident) that no gay actors would ever be cast as romantic leads

Except all the ones that were. Marlen Dietrich, Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Cary Grant, Tallulah Bankhead, Dirk Bogarde, Greta Garbo, Cesar Romero, Desi Arnez, Spencer Tracy, Tyrone Power, Montgomery Clift....I could go on and on and on.

Why are we pretending Hollywood and acting in general isn't the gayest industry that ever was?

Rupert Everett is on record for saying being gay prevented him from winning leading male roles

Yes, but he's hardly going to say being pretty shit at acting and then wrecking his face with surgery and botox prevented him from winning leading male roles, is he? Him saying it doesn't make it true.

As a writer, if a book is meant to be diverse, am I meant to crowd source it? Have all my male characters written by men, my lgbt characters by lgbt etc?

Culture to me is about finding those meeting points, those things that we have in common or differences we didn't know we had.

I've felt small, I've felt brave, I've felt cocky, I've felt like people judged me when they knew nothing about me... I put those things into my characters, I hope!

"The best moments in reading are when you come across something – a thought, a feeling, a way of looking at things – which you had thought special and particular to you. Now here it is, set down by someone else, a person you have never met, someone even who is long dead. And it is as if a hand has come out and taken yours."

I don't want literature to be po-faced renditions of personal experiences. I want creative and thought provoking work that gives me someeto enjoy and think about.

@CakeRequired

I think it's stupid too. It almost feels like we are actually going backwards and almost segregating people again. Gay people can only play gay people, Jewish people can only play Jewish people, etc. I know it's not gotten that way yet by a long shot (thank bloody god), but these things always start with small steps. We are going backwards more than forwards I think.

Actors are acting. It's a role, it's generally fiction as well. It's not real. It shouldnt matter who they are, what they believe etc.

There was a ridiculous stir against Rami Malek playing an Egyptian pharoah in Night of the Museum...

@MeMarmiteYouJam

I'm lesbian and don't care a whit if an actress playing a lesbian on-screen is actually lesbian. It's acting. Pretending.

I am baffled that this is even a thing.

Agreed - if it's acting it's acting.

I have seen something though recently Russell T Davies said of 'It's a Sin' where he cast gay actors in gay roles for it.

Up to him I guess but I think acting is acting.

@CakeRequired

I think it's stupid too. It almost feels like we are actually going backwards and almost segregating people again. Gay people can only play gay people, Jewish people can only play Jewish people, etc. I know it's not gotten that way yet by a long shot (thank bloody god), but these things always start with small steps. We are going backwards more than forwards I think.

Actors are acting. It's a role, it's generally fiction as well. It's not real. It shouldnt matter who they are, what they believe etc.

Exactly - you've only got to look at the cast of Friday Night Dinner, none of whom are Jewish - apart from Tom Rosenthal.

Makes no difference to the way they act their roles, as they obviously act Jewish (whatever that is by the way!) but most important they're funny and they really get into their characters.

A quick Google says that in the top ten films of 2019 (as 2020 was an odd year for film). In the avengers film, lion King, frozen 2, spider man, captain marvel,joker, star wars, toy story, aladin and jumunji. Out of the top ten roles listed for each, of the 100 roles 97% were hetro actors

3 are gay of which 2 are animated )kristoffe and timon)
1 was outed against his will. None are in lead roles

Of the 2020 bafta winners, none of the nominations for best actor, actress or supporting actor or actress were queer. I don't believe there has ever been a best actor or actress bafta winners who was out at the time, neither has the Oscar winners. Some have come out subsequently

Obviously some might not be out but it does very much support the theory of limited casting of the queer community

@OwMyNeck

I think part of it is a push back from the fact that traditionally (and is still very evident) that no gay actors would ever be cast as romantic leads

Except all the ones that were. Marlen Dietrich, Rock Hudson, Tab Hunter, Cary Grant, Tallulah Bankhead, Dirk Bogarde, Greta Garbo, Cesar Romero, Desi Arnez, Spencer Tracy, Tyrone Power, Montgomery Clift....I could go on and on and on.

Why are we pretending Hollywood and acting in general isn't the gayest industry that ever was?

How many of those were out though at time of casting? How many of them were able to have relationships in the public eye?

How many of those were out though at time of casting? How many of them were able to have relationships in the public eye?

They were well known to the casting directors and the whole acting community, which is the salient point. It doesn't matter much if Bob from Wisconsin knew who was gay, Bob wasn't giving out the roles.

I was under the impression that acting was acting or pretending to be someone that you are not hence either gay plays straight or straight plays gay.... whichever way around what does it matter?

Where does it end.... cannot play a domestic violence victim unless you have been a victim, cannot play a married person having an affair unless you have done that - well you know - realism and all.... murderer unless you have murdered, only play the age you are... seriously it is all quite silly.

I can't take the Lord of the Rings movies seriously, I mean, they didn't even use real elves or orcs for the elf and orc parts.

Absurd? Yes, so is this thread, it's called; acting, for a reason.

@OwMyNeck

How many of those were out though at time of casting? How many of them were able to have relationships in the public eye?

They were well known to the casting directors and the whole acting community, which is the salient point. It doesn't matter much if Bob from Wisconsin knew who was gay, Bob wasn't giving out the roles.

I don't think its much of a benchmark is "you can be classed as a romantic lead as long as your never seen with a gay partner, mention being gay, and arent known to be gay to the public"

but then you do look back and see how white, straight, able bodied, slim, beautiful and privileged the acting community is You say the acting community but I rather think you mean film stars. Plenty of perfectly successful actors do not fit that mode. We have theatre companies such as Graeae which mainly work with deaf and disabled artists (their words). And as for priveleged - our industry has been decimated and even before that, people struggle by with little money and little work. There seems to be a view that there are massive stars, then unemployed people that are fooling themselves but the vast majority of actors are between those two extremes. Priveleged we are not.

We also can’t spell ‘privileged’