To not pay my builder

[MakeWorkYourNewFavourite]

Arrrgh! I'm in a mess and a bit scared.

This is long, complicated... and messy.

I know this is my own fault. But, I could still do with your help to find a solution.

My lounge floor caved in. It was an old floor. The wood had rotted (very old house).

I got some builders in. They were registered and gave me an estimate and an invoice. Halfway through, they pissed off and never came back. I rang their number. They said they'd come back, but they had covid. I looked the number up online. It was a fake business number. I'd paid them over a grand and I still didn't have a new floor. Just a load of bumpy concrete in a hole. OK.

Christmas came. I'm a single mum. I live with DD3 and my elderly mother. We were all squashed up in the dining room over Christmas. With all the downstairs furniture piled up around us and in the hallway. This all started in October.

So, a friend (who is also a bit of a colleague - so it's awkward - I run a charity and she is a volunteer) said her mate could do it. He'd just moved into the area and was in the process of getting registered (we're not in the UK). I took the risk, thinking it'd be cheaper, he'd been recommended and I'd already lost so much money.

He turns up two weeks before Christmas. Starts working. I'm paying him 128 EUR a day. I buy and collect all the materials. I pay him on Fridays. So, I paid him two Fridays (over a grand all told). Then Christmas comes. He doesn't come back until the beginning of last week. On Thursday, he says he doesn't think he can put the floor down (laminate, click clacky stuff) because the concrete isn't straight, the walls aren't straight. But he wants 562 euros for his time and materials (he bought a bag of sand?).

The room looks no different. He's replaced around nine broken tiles (fireplace), painted the room, poured self-levelling concrete over everything to straighten it up and took off the skirting boards. This has taken three weeks.

At one point, he noticed my radiator was playing up. He suggested his friend come over to fix it. He says he doesn't charge much. OK. The mate comes, he tells me to order a part for the boiler. I order it. I offer to pay the friend for his time (of course). No, he won't hear of it. He knows I run a charity and he had benefitted from this charity recently. So, I could make a donation to the charity instead. So, that's what I do. I'm very grateful.

Today, he comes back with this friend and they decide they definitely can't lay the floor for another week, but he wants his money. They say this to my mum.

The thing is, he spent days playing around with this wood floor and didn't lay a single piece.

I texted him to say I'm not happy about paying another 562 eur when I still have no floor and it looks like I'm going to have to get someone else in anyway.

He says I have to pay him. He never charged me for petrol, he paid his mate for fixing my boiler (why???? why would he do that? I offered to pay the guy FOUR times and had the cash in my hand) and that if I don't pay him via PayPal by tomorrow at 8 p.m. he'll have to come over and talk to me!

I have a genuine, registered trademan coming over tomorrow to give me an estimate. I also have called a heating engineer to come and give me a certificate for the boiler. So, I have realised the error of my ways.

But what do I do about this man who's threatening me? It's so awkward because of my friend and volunteer... and the fact that I'm the head of this local charity. I don't want to get a rep for being someone who doesn't pay! But I just really feel like I've been taken advantage of twice. Big time. :-( I'm so fed up. And I'm so bloody naive.

Well done to anyone who reads through all that!

Message back saying you've kept a log of all the work he's done and all the payments you've made. It's not up to you to pay his petrol and if he's paid his friend I'd be very surprised so ask to speak to him yourself. If you can speak to the friend he could possibly be an ally as he seemed a decent sort to deal with.

First of all, is there any way of getting the money back from the first scammers (eg did you pay by PayPal or credit card?).

I would say that you will only pay the second one upon satisfactory completion of the job (which has to be within the week) and that is non-negotiable and you won’t be threatened.

I could go to the police about the first guys, I suppose. I don't know how sympathetic they'd be. I paid in cash. I'm so bloody stupid. I do have the invoices though. Full name and address. I know who they are. They're scammers though. The number wasn't a real number. They could be found by the police. But then I get all worried. They know where I live (in the middle of nowhere. On my own, elderly mum, three-year-old). They'd know it was me.

I could speak to the friend who fixed the boiler. I'll try to that tomorrow. I just feel so low. I work from home. I'm freelance. I don't have money to burn like this. I'm sitting here in tears about this and looking up YouTube videos to see if I can lay the floor myself. :-( I don't think I can. I have too much on. So fed up.

Is your floor now level?

It doesn't make any difference at all if the walls aren't straight. But the floor does need to be level to within a few mm depending on your Underr lay.

I recently ( last year) got laminate out in my bedroom and had the man replace my skirting boards. Cost £300 for Labour. I paid for the stuff needed

I don't think it's level. I can feel a definite "channel" in the middle of the room. He thinks I don't know stuff. I probably couldn't lay this floor myself, but I'm not stupid. I think he thinks I am. He's a big bullshitter. He told me his mate got fined ten GRAND for buying coke and crisps in the supermarket (non-essentials) and that he drank FOURTEEN bottles of wine the other night. He tells me all this shit when I'm supposed to be working (and so is HE!). I want to tell him I'm not paying and he can take me to court if he wants. He's not registered to work here. What's he going to do? I'm worried he'll badmouth me. Or come and break my windows or slash my tyres. I feel very vulnerable here.

Tell him if he comes back you will call the police, then tell the colleague who recommended him that he is a con man. You have paid him more than enough for what he has done!

Totally agree with crowsfeet57.
Tell the colleague that he is a con man and is threatening you to get more money out of you although he did not do the work.
Message back saying you've kept a log of all the work he's done and all the payments you've made and that by any trade standard is more than what the job is worth. I'm sure the qualified guy you have coming tomorrow would be able to confirm that ! Let him know that if he comes back you will call the police. And do it if he comes.
Honestly, even if he badmouth you, who will listen to him if he is not a qualified/registered tradesman? The guy seems like a total knob head and if the idiots who believe his usual crap, believe him if/when it talks about you, well too bad for them. People who know you will either know better or ask you directly about it. The others will forget soon enough.

Sending positive vibes your way. You get this.

I forgot to mention - take pics of the state of the work - if it escale, you may want some proof of how inadequate he was, even if it is just to show your colleague!

xx

Surely if he laid the floor & it’s not level that’s his fault too! I agree with pp, you’ve already paid him for work he’s done. Be strong (easier said than done, I know!) and maybe mention to police if you feel vulnerable just so it’s logged?

If he claims it's level what on earth is his excuse for not laying the floor?

Just to test the water. Tell him you've ordered carpet instead so doesn't matter so much if not level. Then see what he comes up with.

So basically he says you owe him for four days work and some materials? He came on the Monday through to Thursday?

Where were you during this four days? Who was monitoring each day when he came in or left and what was occuring?

Surely you knew day by day what work was being done, and also what costs you were agreeing each day when he came back to the property?

I mean this gently I’m just trying to work out how many days he’s charging you for, and how he got in and left each day, to come back the next.

Don’t pay him. Call the police if you have to. Go to media as well....it will say how they’re conning out a hard working charity worker because they know you are a sympathetic person.

You could probably lay the floor yourself. Laminate is super easy. Don’t forget you need underlay to go under the wood planks. Watch a few YouTube videos.

Stick to your guns. Be firm and say you only pay for a completed work. He can huff and puff as much as he wants.

How is he threatening you?

As for materials, ask him to show you receipts. Only pay if the price is reasonable (you can check online)

As to paying the friend mr boiler fixer, tell him it's not your business what he agreed with him. It needed to be agreed with you in advance and now it's too late. You are the client.

To be honest he sounds dodgy and there is not a lot that he can do if you don't pay. He knows he messed you up so trying a bit of a bully technique.

Why was he fixing lots of other things if the job was to fix and fit a new floor?

Get a building surveyor to spec the work remaining moving forward and get a tradesman you checked, double checked and ideally saw a project he completed.

Carpenters are good with floors. Maybe find a reputable carpenter?

Sorry it got so complicated for you. At the grand scheme of things it's a small uncomplicated task and you will get through it soon enough! Good luck 🤞

Oh and don't worry about your friends feelings, she will understand

Ask the trader who's coming how much time the work done would have taken him, ask for an estimate by price of what has been done.

Tell the con artist, another trade has told me that the going rate for the work you've done is X. I'd assume you've overpaid him by about double what he should have done in those days.

You won't chase him for a partial refund, on works which haven't really made any difference to you, but he's certainly not getting another penny out of you.

And tell him if he comes near you, your family or property you have proof of his threats, and you will be involving the police.

I think you've been taken advantage of more than once here. Work out how many hours he's done and what you've paid - I'm sure it's more than minimum wage. If he says he should be paid a skilled wage point out that a skilled worker would have finished the job. As he's too slow and expensive you'll look elsewhere. If he pushes it go to the police. Do t worry about your friend or reputation. You're in danger of having a reputation that you can be ripped off which is far worse. Agree with the person above to play the I'm a charity worker and don't have much money.

Don’t worry about what he says, it’s only words, anyone who knows you will know the truth that’s all that matters. Tell him to take you to court and if he contacts you again you will go to the police. Make sure your mother dosnt open the door to them again. Could you look into a restraining order so they can’t come to your house?

I’d also talk to your volunteer and let them know what’s happened, obviously don’t blame them but say you wanted them to know what’s happened and you will be going to the police if they threaten you again. Your volunteer will probably be mortified that a person they recommend did this.

If he hadn't done anything then absolutely dont pay him. Tell him you'll call the police and report him, as an unregistered tradesman if he shows up again. If he does show up, ignore him.