To wonder why some women belittle other women

[Teenageromance]

I was in quite a high level meeting today with colleagues I know and was presenting. Another woman asked a question that felt like it was designed to catch me out. Why? I would never do that to anyone - male or female. Why do people do this?

It’s hard though isn’t it in the heat of a meeting not to feel flustered when someone asks a question trying to catch you out.

How do you know that was her intention though? She could have genuinely asked a question that you had not prepared for and now your ego is hurt. If you suspect she was intentionally trying to sabotage you, then surely there would be more to the story?

@cherrypie111 some women are the worst though to be fair.

Someone I work for bypassed me to ask a male colleague for help despite him having left my role years ago.

He sent email to me. I emailed her politely asking her to come to me first as he doesn't work for them anymore and I did the work she needed.

He uploaded the work because of some weird system access thing. I told her it was available.

She thanked him for such a job well done and how perfect the report was.

He said don't thank me - she did it.

Absolutely f* all response from that woman or thank you to me. No doubt she'll go to him next time.

Would you think it was fine if a man had done it? If so there are issues on your side too.

A colleague asked you a question you couldn't answer easily. That is the only thing you know for certain in this situation. Whether she was trying to catch you out (and that isn't quite the heinous thing you've made it out to be, if you've gone up there and said something blatantly incorrect or are making a flawed argument then she's surely right to challenge you?) or not, you don't know.

Women owe other women the same respect and general courtesy that men owe men. And men owe women. And women owe men. That does not translate to showing you unconditional positivity or validation in every situation.

Agree with pp

You presented at a meeting, someone, female, asked you a question and you felt they were trying to catch you out? Think about why you felt this and your own insecurities first.

Never rely on your colleagues to have your back.

They have their own career to think of. Male or female, many will happily drop you in it if they think it will give them an advantage over you.

Are you sure it was her intention to catch you out? Insecurity & unhappiness lead people,not just women to put others down. My mother was a prime example. Never had a nice word to say about anyone. I've met & worked for/with so many similar people. Whenever you stop & take the time to reflect on their general demeanour & interactions with everyone, they're generally never very happy people. You don't make your light shine brighter by dimming someone else's .

@Teenageromance

So in a male dominated world you don’t expect women to come together to support one another? I do and I do it to other women too.

So do I always! But slot of women don't Why? Maybe They have to be like men to get ahead? They feel threatened? I don't know why women do this to each other but they do

@Teenageromance

I was in quite a high level meeting today with colleagues I know and was presenting. Another woman asked a question that felt like it was designed to catch me out. Why? I would never do that to anyone - male or female. Why do people do this?

You're doing it right now though...

So you tell us why have you made a thread to write women as a petty group who target women.

[quote Greenygrape]@cherrypie111 some women are the worst though to be fair.

Someone I work for bypassed me to ask a male colleague for help despite him having left my role years ago.

He sent email to me. I emailed her politely asking her to come to me first as he doesn't work for them anymore and I did the work she needed.

He uploaded the work because of some weird system access thing. I told her it was available.

She thanked him for such a job well done and how perfect the report was.

He said don't thank me - she did it.

Absolutely f* all response from that woman or thank you to me. No doubt she'll go to him next time.[/quote]
Wait somone who doesn't work for your company isthe one who can upload stuff?

She was right to contact him as on your own you couldn't have uploaded it?

I disagree that it has nothing to do with gender.

Men aren't always self-aware enough to behave well either. Men often project their anger and shame on to others too, but women are socially conditioned to be nice even if they don't know why they're seething with resentment or anger.

I have very good relationships with women on a one to one basis but quite often in a group there will be one covert scapegoating narcissist who will be love bombing everybody else and totally icing me with the coldest cold shoulder.

It is a situation that has happened to me a few times now. I could never understand it until I read up on familly systems and understood that my family of origin role of scapegoat was following me about.

Not that that's what is happening to the OP as she's not a scapegoat. But women who haven't resolved their shame and who aren't self-aware (the whole jungian shadow thing) will project their shame on to some other woman who in a way reminds them of them self. The women who have given me the cold shoulder have all been in my opinion pretty similar to me in many ways, except that I internalise my doubts and fears (or tended to) and then externalise them.

A lot of the passive aggressive women who do this have literally no idea they are being so awful. They may think you completely deserve the silent treatment or the dig or to be corrected in public.

I've read a lot of books about bullying in the hope that I would finally get some answers and the only thing that comes close is the trauma /stress responses (Pete Walker sets them out very well).

Now i understand that something about me threatens the women who have done this to me. I'm never the most intelligent, the most successful, the most qualified. But the purpose I was serving was in their eyes to be BENEATH them, and when I did or said something that tipped them off to the fact that I didn't buy in to the hierarchy that existed only in their head, for example, defending a boundary, then they felt their shame and instantly projected it back on to me, casting me in the role of enemy.

Somebody in my extended family has been doing this to me for nearly a year now. She is nuts! Absolutely out of her mind nuts but so lovely to everybody except me, nobody but me knows her. She kisses up, she kicks down. I apparently am down.

So OP, that is my guess as to what's going on here, the woman who undermined you was putting you back in your place, ie, beneath her.

Oh yeh, to elaborate a bit on the trauma /stress responses, I am definitely ''freeze'' in the presence of a covert scapegoating narcissist who is trying to exclude me. In real terms that means, I wither, I can't think how I would behave if I weren't feeling so threatened, I withdraw, I give up.

My bully's response to being threatened is ''fight / fawn'' (described as charming bully).

@sinful8 he works in a different department not linked to them now. He can't upload anything that I haven't made. I mean he could have uploaded something blank but that would have been pointless wouldn't it? I had to make the report to upload, I even had to research new computer code to make it work. Wouldn't mind if she'd said to him 'thank you for uploading' but she said to him, didn't even copy me in 'this report is amazing, perfect, just what I wanted' when she knows full well I made it. When he replied to say I'd done all the work absolutely zero acknowledgment.

It's not that big a deal - but yeah she's a dick and it is annoying when women do stuff that is ignored and when a man does it, or has a tiny involvement he gets the credit.

We can’t possibly know whether sex was a factor in this situation. I wouldn’t expect a woman to back me up if I was wrong, but I do think women should support and “boost” each other generally and my experience has been the opposite. It’s hard out there and there’s an attitude from some that they had to fight to get there and so should you. I don’t get this from men so much. Men competing is often more open but also can be more friendly and they are quicker to move on. It’s more acceptable for men to be competitive, to want more and to fail then try again. Women are judged more harshly and competitive behaviour can be more subtle (sly and harder to call out). A lot of women who’ve done well in business behave more like men and don’t try to change the culture to help women who are less assertive eg Thatcher.

And women are no less competitive than men. It’s evolutionary that we need to appear to be healthy and good potential mothers. And the competition there is other women. We’re able to override this to an extent, and should, but the idea women are rarely threatened or jealous of other women isn’t true.

ime the women with a scarcity mindset don't realise they have it so they don't realise that they're so threatened by other women.

The woman who is hell bent on casting me in the role of enemy and giving me the silent treatment, we both have a perfect right to be in the group and although usually, excluding somebody from the group strengthens the bully's sense of belonging, in this case, because the group is extended family, she can never really exclude me.

It's not that big a deal - but yeah she's a dick and it is annoying when women do stuff that is ignored and when a man does it, or has a tiny involvement he gets the credit

Sounds like parenting. Hero dad and slovenly mum, same kid in dirty/crazy self chosen outfit. And other women often judge other mums/worship solo dads the most.

It's envy. Some people get pleasure in bringing other people down. She probably has low self esteem and trys to diminish other people to feel better about herself. Don't let her get to you and keep smiling

Sadly almost all of the bullies and tormentors in my life have been women. From childhood right through to my 30s now..It's really very sad.

Worked in an all female work place..i was bullied and played by most of them,for everything I did and said.

If i tried to be more involved and get to know them i was ''creepy ''
If i stayed away and ignored them I was ''not a team player''
Apparently theyd done it to all the younger women who started before me a male started working there for a placement and we became great friends. I was called an attention seeking slut by them.

Men speak about their weight to eachother all the time or I may speak with a man about it..no problem.

Whenever the topic of weight comes up around women,a lot of the time it turns into almost competing... or defensiveness. Just my experience with it. But I hate it.

Jealousy and feeling insecure

I read s thing ages ago about how subconsciously women in male dominated environments know there is only a small space for women and so fight the other women for that space.

It made sense when I read it.

Could it be that.

But what if she actually was trying to catch her out? To show her up?

It's kind of impossible to make any kind of judgement without knowing what the question she asked was - it may have felt like ti was to catch you out, but may have been an admittedly challenging question designed to ensure the information being presented was watertight and that you could back it up, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
Whether or not she's being belittling to a woman, in particular, we would need to know if she's only like this to women, or she's a tough and challenging colleague to everyone.
I worked with a woman who was a manager who was much tougher on women, because, she admitted some years later, she wanted them to succeed and felt they needed to be better than similarly skilled men to do so. She also conceded this might not have always been right or appreciated, but it came from a place of wanting to push other women to succeed, not to belittle them.

So a man asking a question is curious, intellectually enquiring, perhaps being thorough, wanting to ensure that the project etc will work in the real world / meet clients needs etc .

A woman asking a question is trying to catch her out, show her up, fighting another woman for the space, jealous, insecure, bullying, tormenting, an attention seeking slut, envious, has low self esteem, being a dick, sly, passive aggressive, a covert scapegoating narcissist.

That’s a long list of misogynist words. Very sobering reading for any young woman who wants to get on in her career in business or the professions.

“ Women - shut the fuck up and know your place. Stick to making the tea and taking minutes in meetings . If you as much as ask one question, this ^^ is what others will be thinking of you “.

OP I know you've had criticism on this thread but it's v interesting and helpful so thanks for starting it! Some really interesting posts on here - I'm might print it out.

I think that your reaction of disappointment in your female colleague's response has to be viewed in the wider context of women in the workplace.

What we all need to realise is that none of the men are wasting their time stewing on this - both you and your colleague have been set up (structurally I mean - I don't know the details) to be in conflict whilst meanwhile the men progress. That's why the term "catfight" is used.

There are several layers here, but do you see how the men get off